Rules Question Thread
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Tagged: Breakthrough Move
- This topic has 272 replies, 36 voices, and was last updated 11 months, 1 week ago by Stefan Hückelheim.
October 20, 2020 at 5:30 pm #182518Wayne MParticipant
Thanks, that is helpful! 🙂 I am trying to keep things as standard as possible but I also want to maintain something resembling historical accuracy so I am trying to decide if I want 4 bases of 6 or go with the “normal” 6 bases of 4; I guess it depends on if I want to have 1 base = 1 company or not. I have heard either this is a good thing or bad because it can interfere with the different formations to have less than 6 bases for a normal unitOctober 20, 2020 at 10:26 pm #182522Charge The GunsParticipant
Hi Wayne – Don’t worry, this is something that confuses many people initially, so you are not alone! The only important thing is that the frontages of a regular sized unit in each army is roughly equal. Many people use 20mm or 15mm frontage per figure, and have battalions of around 24 figures, arranged so that in line that are 12 figures wide and 2 figures deep (purely because it looks nice). The game works roughly on the basis of one unit fights one unit, and as Al says, the number of figures in a unit is not used in the rules. If you have an opponent in mind, or belong to a group who play BP, then best to agree the rough size of units you want to use. Otherwise pick either 15mm or 20mm frontage based on what looks nice to you. 24 figure battalions will allow you to build up your force more quickly. You can always go back later and make every battalion bigger if you want to. Do come back and show us your Russians as they get finished 🙂October 21, 2020 at 6:25 am #182524
As it happens, my units are on 15mm per figure frontage and 36 figures. I often play against armies on 20mm per figure frontage (24 figures) and the difference in frontage is negligible.
if you are using Perry Miniatures plastic sets, the bases included are 15mm per figure.October 21, 2020 at 12:42 pm #182530Wayne MParticipant
That is good to know. I was probably going to use Perry mainly but field units of 24 so I get more figures for additional units, and supplement with the individual sprues Warlord sells to bulk them out 🙂
I am still unsure if I want 6×4 or 4×6 though and I’m giving that thought. Technically one company to a stand and 4 stands is more accurate but makes maneuvering into some formations harder than with 6 stands (e.g. Attack Column versus March Column or whatnot) so for ease of play I’m leaning towards 6×4.October 27, 2020 at 2:37 pm #182612
Not sure how Combat work exactly when there are many units & situations
In these 4 examples, can someone tell me how to assign attacks and resolve combats ? (Assuming all units have 8 in HtH).October 27, 2020 at 6:26 pm #182618
Warning! This could be a long reply
This one is straight forward Red has contacted Blue in the flank. Red gets all 8 attacks with the +1 bonus for charging, meaning that the attacks all hit on a roll of 3+.
Blue can only fight back with half of its attacks, so 4 attacks with a -1 modifier to the “to hit” roll because the unit is fighting to its flank.
Roll the dice for each side, then each side rolls the number of hit dice to see if any are saved. Those that are not saved count as casualties and recorded on each side. Deduct the lowest number from the highest number and that is the Combat Resolution. This is the number of casualties that the losing side has lost by and affects the break test. Ordinarily, only the losing side takes the break test, although there is an occasion where that can differ. If the Combat Resolution is zero, then the Combat is a draw. When Combat is drawn, the two sides remain in contact except….
1) If one or both sides involve cavalry – cavalry must always withdraw from combat if the result is a draw. Cavalry retires one full move.
2) If one (or both) sides have reached their stamina level (Shaken) and the combat is a draw, then that unit(s) must take a break test. The unaffected opponent in the drawn combat, if there is one, is not required to take the test, but regardless of the enemy break test result, the combat is still a draw. In other words, if the shaken unit gets a “break” result and is removed from the table, the other side hasn’t won the combat.
Similar to the first one. The rule about flank and rear attacks is that a unit must always place “at least half of its attacks to its front, regardless of whether it is engaged to the front or not”!
Red units get their full attacks as previously mentioned (+1 to hit for charging).
Blue must place 4 attacks to its front, even though there is no enemy there. The rest of its attacks can be place against either rear or red or divided further and placed against both. The Blue player must declare where he is allocating his attacks before rolling any dice and just as before, the rolls suffer -1 to hit for fighting to flank or/and rear.
Blue is in square, so fights on all fronts. A square has no flank or rear. It’s attacks are divided up to each facing of the square. First of all, when Red charges the square, each side that can see the attacking unit can shoot Closing Fire at it each side of the square can fire a single shot up to its maximum of 3 (I am assuming that all units are standard units). I would also allow one unengaged side to fire Closing Fire at one of the charging sides as it will expand out beyond the diagonal that marks each facing – that is me and not written in the book and my reason is that Closing Fire, while worked out after contact is made, it is understood to occur at any time during the move into contact. Casualties caused by Closing Fire May cause a break test. However, casualties from Closing Fire are recorded as usual, but do not count towards Combat Resolution. They won’t affect the Combat result but they may affect the break test!
Once contact is made, the number of attacks that the square makes is a quarter of the unit’s total attacks per facing. In this example 2 attacks per facing. There are no negative modifies unless Blue is Shaken and/or disordered, in which case, it would suffer a -1 to hit for either not both.
Over to Red – exactly as before 8 attacks with +1 to hit for charging.
Combat Resolution is worked out exactly as before. However, there are a couple of additions. First of all, Red has a friendly unit in support, so adds +1 to its Combat Result. Basically, if it scored four casualties you add +1 to this number. This is not an additional casualty, it is just a +1 to Combat Resolution – there are still only four casualties.
Because Blue is in square, it counts as having +3 to Combat Resolution. A square cannot be supported by any friendly troops, so it doesn’t matter if any friends are nearby, they don’t count. The +3 is there because a unit in square is imagined to fully support itself while fighting. They were notoriously difficult to shift.
Ok, so after the result is worked out (and let’s assume that Blue lost the combat) Blue takes its break test. The only result that matters to Blue is “Break”! Any other result is ignored and counts as “Hold Ground”.
If Red lost, then break test results count as normal and if the unit at the top facing got a “Break” result, then the unit in support would be forced to take a break test for seeing its friend break from combat.
Buildings are basically the same as squares. The units within them split their attacks and shooting in the same way exactly. They also count +3 to Combat Resolution (standard or large units). The units attacking the building do not get the +1 for charging because it is negated by the obstacle of the building. The unit in the building enjoys a +2 morale save bonus as well. If it loses the combat (big emphasis on “if”) the unit takes a break test as normal. If it fails and is pushed back (or breaks) only then can the enemy enter and occupy the building. If the defending unit “holds its ground” the combat continues in the next turn, likely with the attackers worse off after casualties.
To be fair, the rules are fairly straight forward and explicit. Reading them or reading this post will take about as long as each other.October 27, 2020 at 9:46 pm #182619
Thank’s very much for your detailed response.
It’s not very clear for me when there are more than 2 units involved in Combat.
In situation 2, Red (Flank) resolve the first flank facing at 8 vs 4 (recording Hits), then Red (Rear) resolve the rear facing at 8 vs 4. After this we resolve the Combat resolution and break tests if any.
in situation 3 (Square) , Red resolve each (2) facings separately ? 1st at 8 vs 2 (recording number of Hits), then 2nd at 8 vs 2 (recording number of hits). After this i resolve the Combat resolution counting the total hit (and support unit).
That’s right ?October 27, 2020 at 11:00 pm #182623
No it isn’t. The combat in both examples are single combats involving two on one. You resolve it all as a single combat. Yes, you can resolve each part as seperate die rolls for ease. Roll the flank attacks first and not the number of hits, then roll for the rear attacks and add the number of hits to the first number of hits. Then, split Blue’s attacks, or place them all on one unit, if you like and roll them off. Make saves for all of the hits. Subtract the number of casualties of one side from those of the other and that is your Combat Resolution.
The only time you would split up a combat, as you have suggested is if there was another Blue unit engaged by one of the Red units. That would become two seperate combats.October 28, 2020 at 8:14 am #182626
That is how i understood (I expressed my self poorly). Except i thought that Blue’s attacks should declare where unit attacks at the start of the engagement.
Again, thanks for your help.January 23, 2021 at 2:16 am #183826Lewis MartinParticipant
When looking at the special rules listed for Rifles and.light infantry, I see the rule Skimrishers listed. What exactly is that rule? Thanks.January 23, 2021 at 8:57 am #183829Charge The GunsParticipant
When the lists mention “Skirmishers” in the special rules they mean that this unit is in a Skirmish formation and all of the rules for Skirmishers therefore apply. This is a bit different to the items in the ‘useful rules’ section (see p100). The Skirmish rules are quite fundamental, and rules are spread through the book. We are lucky in that BP2 has an index on p199 and you can look up Skirmish there and see all of the places where it is covered.January 30, 2021 at 8:18 pm #183979IgorParticipant
In 2nd Edition artillery coul ignore enemy skirmishers when firing in some cases. They don`t block them LOS. But can artillery fire through friendly skirmishers?
Example: french ligth battalion is standing betwen french battery and british infantry. British battery can ignore this skirmishers as they are far then 12″ from it and can hit french battalion in line formation behind skirmishing light batalion. Is french battery able to fire british through freindle skirmishers?January 30, 2021 at 8:52 pm #183980NatParticipant
I read it as more a case of two rules 1)artillery can ignore units of skirmishers when forced to shoot the closest unit
& 2) artillery can ignore the skirmishers of a unit when working out LoS & to hit score…. ie ignore the skirmishers and hit the line /column behind them.February 21, 2021 at 9:11 pm #184464IgorParticipant
The question is about friendly skirmisers. ENEMY skirmishers don`t block LOS for artillery, but what if there are FRIENDLY skirmishers on the line of fire?February 22, 2021 at 10:29 am #184468NatParticipant
No, you cant shoot through friendly skirmishers…your likely kill a couple!
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