Rules Question Thread
Tagged: Breakthrough Move
June 26, 2020 at 7:18 pm #179423
Page 20 (main rulebook) under Formations. It tells you all about Skirmish formation.
Basically, it tells you about the different way that units use the formation “Skirmish Order”. As a line unit in “Skirmish Order” is not a unit of skirmishers, they do not benefit from being skirmishers.
I don’t comment much on the supplements because I tend not to use them., though I often look up a question in them to see if I can see the issue and solution.
Yes, shooting at skirmishers or a line in Open Order would be the same, but skirmishers claim it all the time, line infantry don’t. They only claim it under particular circumstances.
The rule that you mention about Mixed Formation is the same as in the v1 rulebook.July 15, 2020 at 1:59 pm #179947Karl DeppeParticipant
We had in our last game (napoleonic) the situation where there was a infantry unit in attack collumn with an attached artillery unit. They had been attacked by a cavalry unit. The infantry has to form a square and will not be further attacked by the cavalry. What about the attached artillery? Can they still be attacked?July 15, 2020 at 8:35 pm #179954
When you say attached, do you mean part of the unit or do you mean it is in the same brigade?
There are rules for brigade squares on page 91 of BP2. These include artillery and more than one battalion of infantry. I would adapt those and place the gun on a corner of the square. That will add some extra firepower to one side of the square. Otherwise, form the square around the gun to protect it and the crew. I would add it on the corner, myself.October 7, 2020 at 3:32 pm #182219MareckiParticipant
Question about brigade order: Can I issue brigade order to my 3 cavalry units, where one unit wants to charge enemy and other two want to move to the left flank and rear to support combat?October 8, 2020 at 10:21 am #182226NatParticipant
No because thats two separte orders…. 1 is a charge & the other is a moveOctober 10, 2020 at 11:11 am #182310Charge The GunsParticipant
Hi Marecki, I interpret the rules a bit differently to Nat. If you order the brigade to charge then they will all have to attempt to charge. However, as only one unit can contact, the remaining units will move so as to attempt to support the unit in contact. This is described on p61 of BP2.
This makes sense to me in broad terms. If, as the overall general, I ordered one of my brigades to “fall-on and engage the enemy” then I would expect them all to go off and do this to the best of their ability. I wouldn’t expect to need to issue separate orders.
It is worth noting that this is different in Pike and Shotte. In P&S it explicitly says that you can’t do this, and that supports need to be given a separate order. I assume this is trying to make moving larger formations more difficult in the 17th and earlier centuries. Perhaps this is what Nat was thinking of? (It’s worth noting that my group play BP more than P&S and so we always forget this difference in P&S!)
October 10, 2020 at 3:04 pm #182316
- This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Charge The Guns.
Thanks for that page reference. I thought I was going mad. I knew it was there, but couldn’t find it no matter how hard I looked. I even looked in BP1!
Going blind!October 12, 2020 at 5:36 pm #182373MareckiParticipant
Thanks for reply and help. Description on p.61 is very important for BP gameplay. In last game I’ve played like Nat suggest , and only charging unit completed the order with no support from firends…October 13, 2020 at 9:04 am #182381NatParticipant
To be fair we normally do a charge order and then a supporting move order for the other units.October 17, 2020 at 10:10 pm #182481BertParticipant
About Fighting Combat
Assume an Infantry unit (HtH:9) is facing 2 units : 1 Infantry (HtH :6) + 1 Artillery (HtH:1)
The rule say (P.69) to divide attacks. I must assign 4 dices vs Artillery and 5 dices vs Infantry ?
Another one :
Can a Cavalry unit support Infantry ?October 18, 2020 at 7:12 am #182482
1) That is correct. It is nasty charging into guns, so avoid it wherever possible. Both units will fire Closing Fire as your unit contacts. Then, should it have suffered any casualties, your unit takes a break test. Now, this doesn’t happen often with Infantry vs infantry, but where artillery is concerned, it is brutal. Once you’ve survived that, your unit is likely shaken. That gives you a -1 to your combat rolls, effectively negating your charge bonus (could be worse, you might not have completed the charge or broke and removed from the table). Artillery is poor in a fight but devastating when shooting. However, they become resilient when they are teamed up with a unit of infantry. Tot up all the casualties for each side (ignore closing fire casualties for now) and compare. The one with the highest casualties scored against them loses and takes a break test. Artillery cannot fall back, so if that side fails the break test the artillery is removed. Despite being shaken or disordered, your unit can maintain contact if the other side falls back. Then all of your unit’s attacks will count against the remaining enemy infantry.
2) Yes. Under the title of Supports, you will see a list of which units can’t support other units. Any unit, other than those listed, can support any units. Supporting units do not have a choice. If they are within 6 inches of a combat, they count as supporting. As per the rules, you can only count one support on each flank and one at the rear, even if there are more units there. However, should the fighting unit lose and suffer a “break” result, all units that were in a position to support must take a break test (unless they are involved in hand to hand combat themselves, but then, they were not eligible to support). That is <i>all</i> units, not just those that were used to support during the combat!
hope that helps.October 20, 2020 at 12:39 am #182507Wayne MParticipant
So this is a rather silly rules question and there may not be an actual answer but… I am a newbie to BP so I’m looking at following the recommended frontages (doing Napoleonics) for Standard/Small/Large units. What about the frontages that fall in between the ranges?
For example, Small is listed as 120mm – 150mm and Standard is 200mm – 250mm. What about say 180mm? Is that considered Standard even though it’s above Small and below Standard (I would think so as it’s clearly not Small nor Large)? Basically, as a total newbie, I am trying to think of how to base my units; I want to do Russians around 1812-1814 and I am not sure if I want to use 24 figures in 4 stands of 6 (as Russian infantry regiments had 4 companies per battalion so each stand would represent a company) or 32 figures in 4 stands of 4 figures, 2 stands deep (2 stands to a company; this seems to be how the Warlord figures are arranged in the photos but seems odd and no other figures seem to do this). My dilemma arises from the fact if I want to go with the former I would be using 45mm or perhaps 50mm bases to allow for 6 figures (40mm seems a bit small for 3 wide), and using 45mm would give a unit frontage of 180mm (45mm per base x 4 bases) which falls outside the boundaries of frontages as suggested in the Black Powder rulebook!
Apologies for the very newbish question, I am new to historical gaming and it’s very unlike the games I am familiar with! 🙂October 20, 2020 at 5:35 am #182510BertParticipant
Hi Big Ai
Thks for the clarification. When you say “Supporting units do not have a choice”, is that support in combat is not an option but a mandatory ?October 20, 2020 at 6:40 am #182512
Yes. It is mandatory. Also, even if the unit is not used for support ( there is more than one eligible to support – eg: two units at the rear) both would have to take the break test if the fighting unit is destroyed.October 20, 2020 at 6:44 am #182513
Wayne, it is just a general thing. It is unlikely that anyone would have a frontage that falls in between because there is no figure count in the game. So, just make your units up accordingly. If you do have units that fall in between, just make a decision as to which size the unit will be and that will be ok. The difference will only be a few millimetres and will have little effect.
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