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  • #140084
    Big Al
    Participant

    No there isn’t. That is, not in the main rulebook. There may be something in one of the supplements.
    What made you think there was?
    There is nothing to stop you making up a house rule for it, if you think it appropriate, but six rerolls seems quite a lot and he would not be able to use them for other commanders’ failures.

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    #140085
    Big Al
    Participant

    Just seen Igor’s Reply. Sorry to confuse.

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    #140127
    RKHaryett
    Participant

    Having our first game of BP/Clash of Eagles and so far we have been pleased with the playability, results and flavour. However, as might be expected, a couple of questions came up during our game. I hope the experienced players can lend their insight.

    1) Proximity Rule: We have a situation where the Austrians have occupied a small village in advance of their main defensive position and capable of holding two battalions. The French have engaged the front of the village with artillery and infantry and on the right side (French perspective), have a unit risking enfilade fire from the buildings and bypassing the village to threaten an Austrian battery on a hill to the right rear of the village. That battalion is withing proximity range of the village. Can it change facing to face the village (the battery was destroyed by other means) in preparation of assault or does it have to withdraw beyond proximity first? Does a change of facing/formation count as a move?

    2) Similarly, we are using the suggested rule that a unit which moves more than once cannot fire. Can a unit move once then change formation (assuming the dice will allow 2 moves) and still fire?

    I think we are all enjoying the rules although we all think that getting 3 moves is too easy and may houserule to make it more difficult, at least for infantry.

    Cheers and thanks in advance for any insight.

    Kent

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    #140138
    Big Al
    Participant

    1) Yes, the unit can change facing. It can’t move into its new facing until its next turn, but it can change facing.
    The Proximity Rule does not affect formation changes.

    2) Changing formation takes a full move, so no, it can’t fire if using that suggested rule. It has taken two moves.

    Having said that, I would discuss it with the other players and come to an agreement because I believe that the rule was created because some players believe that units should not be able to move so far across a battlefield and still be allowed to fire. Personally, I don’t see why not. I feel a better rule would be to add a -1 to hit if the unit has moved, or even a -1 per move beyond the first.

    If you think that getting three moves is too easy, try reducing the Command Rating of your commanders. I must ask if you have remembered to add in the Command roll Modifiers, like adding the +1 for every 12inches beyond the first for the distance the commander is from the unit he is issuing the order to, and the +1 for being within 12inches of an enemy? I have said “+1” because you add it to the Command roll result. The book gives the modifiers as negatives, but that is to the Command Rating. It is the same thing, but I think altering the roll is easier.

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    #140149
    Igor
    Participant

    1) Proximity rule is ok. But anfilade from building is no pissible. From skirmish formation anfilade fire is not allowed.
    2) Only the begginers are affraid of 3 moves of a unit. It`s not so ussial event to downgrade it with home rules.

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    #140162
    RKHaryett
    Participant

    First, thank you for your input, gentlemen.

    @Igor – Unless I’m missing something, infantry in buildings are not skirmishers. Please provide a page number in the MRB that suggests otherwise.

    @Big Al – We use historical OOBs and try to give SR based on historical performance; our own observations and upon review of the many other rulesets that have evaluated commanders. Typically, an Austrian Brigadier will have an SR of 7; Pre 1813 French and Post 1812 Prussians an 8.

    We are taking into consideration all the command modifiers plus modifiers from the “Special Rules” which means that most European units will get the +1 for Assault Column and the French another +1 for Pas de charge. Except for the rare blunder, our units stay within supporting distance of each other. I can see the distance from Commander as being an issue only in small games where troop density is ahistorically low. I am very fortunate in having a permanent 8×6, expandable to 12×6, table so we can fight largish battles over a number of evenings (we play in 15mm BTW).

    We are using the Optional Corps Commander rules but have limited their reroll ability to the entire game rather than per turn.

    Anyway, we are half way through a most enjoyable first game. Casualties are starting to mount as we approach the climax of the battle. Eleven French Battalions in 3 waves are poised to pierce the Austrian centre which has been left perilously thin after the Austrian CiC shifted the supporting units to his right flank. However, as a result of a major French blunder (I got distracted by a pizza and forgot to activate an entire Brigade) the Austrian left wing commander has a golden opportunity, if bold enough, to intervene and cause us much mischief. Looking forward to picking up this Friday.

    Thanks again, guys.

    Kent

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    #140169
    Big Al
    Participant

    I must correct you about Pas de Charge. The unit does not gain an additional +1 for this. Unfortunately all of the posts on the old forum are lost, but Ady, the author of the three Napoleonic supplements, explained it clearly. The +1 for Pas de Charge replaces the +1 for being in Attack Column. It was just to give a bit of nationalist flavour! Contact him on Facebook if you don’t believe me, though I am sure someone else will confirm it for you.

    As to the distance modifiers, I agree that they don’t often come into play, but it does happen if you have a couple of particularly stubborn units (poor dice rolls) or if you forget to move your commanders (we’ve all done it). Also, the C-in-C might find them being applied when he is called upon to use his influence.

    We tend to use the sort of command ratings you have mentioned, for the same reasons. We don’t often have any problems and three moves are never an issue. We find that constraint is applied in the wording of the command. We rarely find units running across a battlefield way ahead of the rest of the army.

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    #140170
    RKHaryett
    Participant

    @ Big Al: I believe you and have no reason to doubt you. I will relay that info. to my gaming buddies. So all nations in essence have Pas de Charge. I thought Pas de Charge made French units in assault column Reliable and hence, the +1. Oh well no point in complaining. The Russians and Austrians have it even tougher…lol…I’m sure my Austrian opponents will be delighted with this news.

    While I have your attention, perhaps you could confirm the +1 in HtH for Veteran cavalry (as noted in Clash of Eagles) is a result modifier rather than a “To Hit” modifier or Morale Save Modifier. I couldn’t find a clarification.

    Thanks for the input. It’s a shame that all the info on the old forum has been lost.

    Kent

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    #140171
    Big Al
    Participant

    Sorry, I don’t own the book, so cannot do so without seeing the wording. What does it actually Say?
    If it is a results modifier it would state that it was to Combat Resolution. If it does not specify that, then it will be to the combat roll.

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    #140175
    Igor
    Participant

    Well, as I think, battalion can not enter buildng in line or column formation. If they enter a building the form skirmish order inside it – they just form a skirmish order on terrain that they could no normaly enter

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    #140179
    Big Al
    Participant

    Ah, well, that is not according to the rules. If you play it that way, that is fine, but you can’t tell everyone that that is the rule when it isn’t. That will just mislead people.

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    #140181
    Igor
    Participant

    Well. Heres the point that soldiers that dont have skirmisher skills, cannot have this bonus while holding the building.

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    #140186
    Big Al
    Participant

    What are you talking about? Nobody said that anything about a skirmisher bonus!
    The rules for buildings are on page 77. There is absolutely no mention of skirmishers there whatsoever. Nor is there any mention of skirmishers in the original post and the original poster confirmed that the unit in the buildings was a regular unit of infantry!

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    #140295
    RKHaryett
    Participant

    I’m with Big Al on this one Igor. Buildings are discussed on pp. 37-38 and 77. Having just reviewed those pages, I can confirm that there is no mention whatsoever of skirmishers. The rules refer to infantry units and draws an analogy between units in square and units in a building.

    Skirmish is a special rule which gives certain units the ability to break down into skirmish formation as opposed to Mixed formation which allows a unit to deploy its light company/ies to skirmish ahead of the main body. The MRB allows units without the Skirmish characteristic to adopt Skirmish formation to enter terrain it could not otherwise enter. This rule is fine tuned in CoE on p.110 to better reflect Napoleonic practice.

    Accordingly, units in a building can deliver enfilading fire.

    @Big Al – The rule I asked you about simply states: Upgrade Cavalry Unit to Veteran (Reliable and +1 HtH). The points cost for such an upgrade is 6. I have searched for clarification but have not found an answer. I figure the “+1 HtH” must refer to Combat Resolution because a +1 to the “To Hit” would make Veteran units very powerful. Strangely, the Old Guard, both infantry and cavalry, are not Veteran nor can they be upgraded. So a veteran Austrian cavalry unit would be significantly better (16% better chance of getting a hit) in melee than say the Grenadiers a Cheval. I can’t see how being Veteran would cause more casualties. Rather, experience would allow them to better handle the vicissitudes of combat. Just my thoughts. Will see if I can get some clarification from the FB page.

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    #140297
    RKHaryett
    Participant

    I just tracked Adrian down on his FB page and asked him about the “Veteran” upgrade allowed to cavalry units in CoE. Adrian confirmed that the +1 is to Combat Resolution rather than “To Hit” or “Morale Save” which makes sense to me.

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