Stop the Madness – Heroically over-sized Miniatures.

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  • #177457
    Kar98k
    Participant

    Beefier Figures

    Has anyone else noticed that Warlord Games’ newer plastic infantry box sets for Bolt Action are getting even more heroically over-sized? This extra girth (even more than normal) causes several obvious problems, but more importantly this makes their newer plastic figures less compatible with their earlier plastic figures. This is getting ridiculous.

     

    Limited Poses

    Has anyone also noticed that their newer plastic box sets for Bolt Action are becoming more pose restricting? With these newer sets, you get far fewer options for assembling the figures in different poses than previous box sets. On top of that, a few arm choices are very unique or limited in use as opposed to the more generic multi-use arms found in their earlier sets.

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    #177458
    Nigel Heather
    Participant

    Some examples would be good.

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    #177459
    Kar98k
    Participant

    Some examples would be good.

    Hi Nigel, I’m going to take a wild guess and say you haven’t yet assembled any of the older and newer Bolt Action plastic figure sets.

    • This reply was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by Kar98k.
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    #177612
    Jim Ripley
    Participant

    I tend to like the older sets with the separate weapons sprue . While I know that some people have trouble getting the arms and weapons glued together in a natural manner , I’ve never had that problem . The amount of loose arms in the Russian set gives you variations of poses only limited by your imagination and modelling skill . I would like to see a few more single arms without weapons attached in the newer sets  , including both a left and right “carry ” arm . Plus a few more lower body / leg varieties would be nice , oh and lets have more rifles -without- bayonets please

    +3
    #177616
    Greg S
    Participant

    I prefer metal figures to be honest.  But even Warlord’s metals are beefy.  Often they are more deatiled than other manufacturers, but definitely of larger girth.

    But any Warlord figure looks gigantic compared to tank crews.

    Which new plastics do you feel are particularly bad?

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    #177637
    Kar98k
    Participant

    @Jim Ripley – Well said. And just for the record, I also like the earlier sets with the separate weapons and arms.

    @ Greg S – None are particularly bad. Just noticing that the newer sets have more poses limits, and the figs have even more girth compared to their earlier sets. Or maybe its just me.

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    #177639
    Nat
    Participant

    It looks like WL are going more towards the gaming than the modelling side of the hobby.  Where you want to be able to see what something is from across a 4′ table with terrrain on.

     

    Tank crews are additions to a vehicle so not important, where as seeing a model (and what its eqipped with) easily is for game play…. As more of a gamer than a modelist (I hate painting! and find converting hard to do for co-ordination reasons) I dont mind the ‘over-sized minis’ so long as they do end up the size of a certain SF GM’d faction!

    This coupled with cost of design and manufactoring implications …. and scale creep will always happen when you design something from scratch and dont compare it in the flesh, fully painted on a table :p

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    #177661
    Kar98k
    Participant

    Nat, I concur. Warlord Games is definitely going more towards the gaming side than the modelling side of the hobby. Even more so with their latest releases.

    When talking gaming figures, there are two things to note: 1) Looks are in the eye of the beholder. 2) Plastic model companies like to make figures with more anatomically correct proportions while wargame miniature companies like to make figures that tend to have added body girth, oversized heads, hands, weapons, and other features because sculptors like to put emphasis on those parts of the wargame figure. Also, in the case of the figure’s weapons and other equipment, added strength and durability for use on the gaming table. This of course all makes sense.

    Overall, I just wished miniature wargaming companies would stop making such heroically over-sized 28mm gaming figures. Doing something like what Perry Miniatures does isn’t a bad start. There is a reason why the Perry brothers have won many awards with their gaming figures including the prestigious Jack Scruby Award in 2018.

    Simply put, Perry Miniatures are for miniature gaming, and as a result the Perry brothers mix in a good blend of anatomically correctness with some exaggerated detail and proportions that make them look good on the gaming table, but can also look good for static dioramas. Used for gaming or static displays, Perry Miniatures just work. Are the Perry Miniatures perfect? No, but IMHO they do a better job at this fine art of making 28mm wargaming figures than most other companies.

    +1
    #177664
    SteveT
    Participant

    I know what you mean, but there are several reasons why figures are sculpted this way:

    (1) easier to sculpt  (but advances in the digital process  should really have kicked more though…)

    (2) figures are more robust. They are game pieces.

    (3) not all humans are lithe Olympic runners. You could just as well ask where are the oversight, short, or lanky ones in more historical ranges.

    (4) bit easier to identify at table ranges

    (5) bit easier to make more unique figures/personalities

    (6) bit easier to paint. Don’t underestimate this for some people.

    (7) possibly a deliberate attempt from moving them away from the grim reality into “it’s a game”.

    But I agree, their earlier plastics and modern plastics do vary a little – they should not!!

     

     

     

     

     

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    #177666
    Jim Ripley
    Participant

    While Perry & Rubicon have more true scale figures , they are not in dynamic poses that catch the eye when built and painted , in fact IMO they , for the most part , look pretty bland . I’m all for having toy soldiers looking like figures in the old Lion & Action comics . I have to admit that some BA figures  really look weird when placed beside others from the range . A buddy has quite a few of their older metal blister packs and there seems to be a difference in style / size depending on when and who sculpted them , the same can be said for the resin vehicles .

    +1
    #178081
    Kar98k
    Participant

    But I agree, their earlier plastics and modern plastics do vary a little – they should not!!

    SteveT, and I guess that is my biggest complaint. Not only do the newer plastics look beefier and bulkier than the older plastics, but you can’t use your extra bits (arms and heads for example) between the two to mix things up a bit. With the older sets, you could do that.

    jim, I can see what you mean about poses offer by Perry Miniatures, but I actually like the more normal and useful poses that they offer. Especially the newer WW2 US Infantry plastic box set. Yes, compared to some of the over-the-top-dynamic poses Warlord Games offers, the Perry figures might seem a bit less dynamic.

    As for Rubicon Models plastic figures, well, I fully understand what you are saying. I completely agree with you. Some of the Rubicon Models figures just seem off. Maybe they too anatomically correct? Certainly, the heads and hands are even a bit smaller than Perry figures. As for poses, its sort of a hit and miss with Rubicon Models, but they are showing improvement in that area. But they still suffer from being more anatomically correct than they should.

    As a side note, I know at least two other gamers that take the extra heads (and sometimes arms and equipment) from Perry Miniatures figures and use them on Rubicon Models figures. This actually improves the look of the Rubicon Models figures.

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    #178141
    Kar98k
    Participant

    Here are some examples of the new US Infantry from Perry Miniatures. Just beautiful… but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    Yes, Perry Miniatures are sometimes known to have some dreadful cast metal figures, but I’m focusing on only the plastics. That said, the Perry Miniatures 28mm plastic US Infantry set (2019) is absolutely outstanding! The figures are well proportioned with a good blend of anatomically correctness and exaggerated detail. They will fit almost perfectly with the current 28mm WW2 figures by Empress Miniatures, which are sculpted by Paul Hicks. Even when compared with the more heroically proportioned figures from Artizan, Crusader, and Warlord, they should fit in reasonably well – when seen from an arms length. However, the newer Warlord plastic figure sets are a bit… well, beefier, to keep it polite. You can notice a difference in girth between Warlord’s older and newer plastic figures.

    It should be noted that the weapons on the Perry Miniatures are a little thinner (more accurate in size, and a little more fragile) when compared to the much over sized weapons of other brands of figures, so if you’re a little picky like me, then you might want to keep different bands in separate units.

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 4 weeks ago by Kar98k.
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    #178145
    Jim Ripley
    Participant

    Nice looking figures , though the poses IMO , are rather blah . I’m more for the action style pose of some of the BA plastics  , and  while it looks good in a squad madly dashing across a field under fire , does look out of place having every 5th or 6th figure posed off balance on one foot in a trench or behind a hedge . The scale creep we see in BA’s line of both metal and plastic figures is because of the variety of sculptors and when it was mastered . IRC , Warlord took over a few small  companies ranges to bolster their then new BA game . They then subbed out development of new metals & plastics  to add to their line , and again each sculptor designed the figures in their own style . Some still look good today , while others , not so much , or have been retired and new sets added . The old Brit plastics really don’t hold a candle detail wise  to the new Airborne for example , while on the downside ( for some ) the Paras are the larger plastic style .  I’ve seen a comparison chart somewhere of a variety of brands figures that gives  you a visual example of how the figures stack up next to each other . Of course to it was on a neutral gamer’s  site as I don’t think any companies want their product dissected up close to another’s on their home site . It would be nice though if Warlord could show us their figures in that light , I’m sure there are BA blister packs that I’ve overlooked because I’ve been burned by others , that would fit with the style / size figures I like . It’s easy to compare when you can hold the pack in your hand at a store , a little more a roll of the dice when ordering on line . I’m sure we’ve all got a few ( a lot even ) of figures we’ve received that don’t meet our standards , into the parts box with you ! I’ve noticed some new sets by North Star and Atlantic ( WW1 Germans ! ) have human figures of all the same size and girth , of course being new and probably designed in CAD it would be easy to get every figure looking the same unlike sculpting masters by hand like the old days . Not a fan of their molded on bases though ……

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    #178146
    harryb
    Participant

    Regards Figure sizes …It can be a little strange – I noticed the BA German Pioneers were really small in comparison to say Russians, US infantry or US  marines. The (slightly taller thinner) US Perry’s are a great set but I wish none of them had bases.  You also get “a lot” of Perry’s in a box (lots of bang for your buck).  By the way the BA Jap and Jap marines boxes are pretty much the same figure poses with some extra metal and a few metal figures. Which is a shame cos they could have made them a bit more varied and sold more packs.

    I suppose its down to manufacturing costs… its cheaper to push out the same plastic model spues (with some variation) and then supplement with metal packs. This lets us (the buyers) build volume quicker. This may change with 3d printers.

    Some metal figures do seem chunky, Artisan BA all seem medium but Offensive Miniatures are more like the plastic Perry.  Black Tree are very chunky …but i have to say I quite like some of the poses…

    So I guess its all as you say its in the eye of the budget holder as you say!  To be honest I still find it strange that some players mix in 1:48 scale vehicles with 28mm…

     

     

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    #178153
    invisible officer
    Participant

    Over size or real world?

    +1
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