Stop the Madness – Heroically over-sized Miniatures.

[Jim Ripley]

The problem isn’t the figures being different in size , people are different . Its the personal gear and weapons whose sizes are set . While there were 2 or 3 sizes of helmets in most armies ( we  all have a buddy with a really big  head, lol ) , and rifles have different lengths of stocks ( the Enfield for example ) , gas mask cases , canteens , ammo pouches , etc are all the same size weather the soldier is 6’6″ or 5′ nothin . We have a disadvantage in 28mm/ 1/56 as most metal / resin figures have weapons and equipment molded to them  ,while  plastics have some flexibility but equipment is usually molded in a set ,ie : German canteen ,mess tin , bread bag , gas mask can , entrenching tool – all as one piece . In the larger scales where you might have scale creep ( early Mini Art , Master Box ) you could use the 1/32 size  figures with the 1/35 figures as all equipment was separate and you could  use one companies product , Dragon for example. This would help make a group of figures look like their counterparts in the real world , various sizes of people with all the same sized equipment . What we need is someone to make separate sets of weapons  and equipment for each of the major players of WW II , and while I think that would probably go over well with the kit bashers and more model builder types in this scale , I can’t really see any being released in the near future . On a more  positive note , the latest BA plastics ( Afrika Korp ) do have things like ammo pouches , canteen , gas mask case  molded separately .  Sure you only get one per sprue , but it’s a start . I tend to use those pieces on the larger size  figures to help blend them into my army .

[harryb]

LOL love the big guy in uniform…so our plastic and metal guys are accurate!

• This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by harryb.

[Kar98k]

@Jim Ripley – are these the poses that you think that are “rather blah”? (please see attached picture). I also agree, having bases molded onto the figures is odd now (especially for plastic figs). However, it turns out that it is pretty easy to remove the bases by careful cutting and trimming. Sadly, I didn’t think of that before I painted and based my figures. That being said, some gamers like the pre-molded bases on teh Perry figures.

@harryb – I also find it strange that some players mix in 1:48 scale vehicles with 28mm figures. True, the extra wide and overall girth of the figures almost seem 1:48, but the overall height is not 1:48. Unless they are supposed to be all WW2 Dwarves (short and chunky).

What makes it even stranger is that there are some good 1:48 scale miniatures. Richard Ansell’s 1:48 scale figures from Scarab Miniatures come to mind, and they blend in very well with the plastic 1:48 scale figures from Tamiya and other model companies.

What is interesting to me, the older plastic figure box sets from Warlord Games – you know, the ones with separate weapons – were less beefy than the newer sets. However, they can still be a little beefy to an artist’s eye. Unless the sculptors were using pumped up Arnold Schwarzeneggers as an example.

As freaky as this may sound, the heads from the newest Warlord Games plastic infantry sets can almost be used on Tamiya’s 1:48 scale plastic figures. Clearly though, there is a significant height difference between 1:48 scale Tamiya figures and 28mm (1:56 scale) Warlord Games figures, but the heads are almost interchangeable.

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[harryb]

Agreed – its even freaker when you start 3d printing vehicles….

what do you take as your “datum”… actual(s) – and lets face it there are a few dodgy actual figures out there? warlord sizes? Blitgrieg sizes? Rubicon? and then you find out its a different version your measuring LOL

I find that with vehicles its “actual” that works best – but modify (to a degree) if required to suit the  mass produced models in your army.

Its usually more difficult if there are no production models of the item you want to print.  Ohh and I always go by the largest parameter (usually length) when scaling to ensure greater accuracy!

But at the end of the day …just have fun.

 

[Kar98k]

“what do you take as your “datum”… actual(s) – and lets face it there are a few dodgy actual figures out there? warlord sizes? Blitgrieg sizes? Rubicon? and then you find out its a different version your measuring LOL”

What I find funny (as well as frustrating) is that the figures you mentioned above are all about the same height. It is just the figure’s overall girth and other details that make them look very different – both visually and realistically.

[Kar98k]

Video on YouTube – What is Games Workshop’s “Heroic” Scale

[Jim Ripley]

It has always confused me why they call our war game figures  28mm scale . They’re not 28mm scale , they are 28mm in height , now weather its from the bottom of the foot to the top of the head or the eye line depends on  the company that makes them . Scale is a size ratio , ie : 1 inch equals 2 feet , so that’s 1/24 scale . The scale of Bolt Action  is 1/56 , so one inch on your BA  vehicle would in the real world be  56 inches ( 4ft8in ) .   I only have trouble using the heroic size figures when crewing a vehicle or having troops in close proximity to one , it looks a little weird . So I tend to use more slender 28mm or even Tamiya 1/48 figures who look pretty good if you shorten them a bit , in my vehicle

[Kar98k]

“It has always confused me why they call our war game figures 28mm scale . They’re not 28mm scale , they are 28mm in height.”

I think most just shortcut it by saying that. What they really mean is 1:56 scale (28mm). That is, 1:56 scale which is also about 28mm height.

“…now weather its from the bottom of the foot to the top of the head or the eye line depends on the company that makes them.”

And of course the “Scale-Creep” trend didn’t help. I still remember a time when 15mm figures were actually 15mm, and 25mm figures were actually 25mm. That is, they measured 15mm or 25mm from bottom of the feet to the top of the head – even with a helmet or shako, it wasn’t hard to figure that out (pun intended). Sooner than later,  a 25mm figure just became a 28mm figure. This is because competition among different figure manufactures – that is, to make them less compatible with other figures – a scale-creep trend began to take hold. Soon 25mm meant the distance from the bottom of the feet to the eyes, or nose, or chin, or something other than the top of the head. Can you imagine if you are at the doctor’s office and they measured your height from the bottom of your feet to your eyes. You would think they were doing it wrong.

In the distant past, it appears that figure manufactures tried to more or less produce figures that would measure the same height (25mm for example) using the distance from the bottom of the feet to the top of the figure’s head. This was actually beneficial for the miniature gamer because what one manufacture did not have, another might have. Even though figures from different manufactures might look different, they were at least very close to the same height. You did not have the unpleasant appearance of un-natural giants and/or midgets within the same ranks of your army.

Also, figures in the past seemed more anatomically correct. Especially compared to the beefy “heroic sized” figures we see today.

How different would things be if we didn’t have trends like “scale-creep” and “heroic sizing”?

[Kar98k]

“I only have trouble using the heroic size figures when crewing a vehicle or having troops in close proximity to one , it looks a little weird . So I tend to use more slender 28mm or even Tamiya 1/48 figures who look pretty good if you shorten them a bit , in my vehicle.”

You just might have something here… thanks for the tip. I have these very old Bandai 1:48 scale plastic “German Tank Men” (kit#8277) figures that look like they will work great (if you shorten them). They are 1:48 scale (33mm figures), and yet slimmer than Warlord’s 28mm figures.

Interesting to point out that Bandai’s rifles, rangefinders, and binoculars are 1:48 scale (33mm) and are smaller than Warlord Games’ rifles, rangefinders, and binoculars – comparing to some of the newer plastic sets which are supposed to be about 1:56 scale (28mm).

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[Jim Ripley]

I love the Bandi 1/48 tank kits , I had 30 or so back in the 70s . Like a fool I gave them away when I got into building 1/35 . Warlord’s  newer weapons are probably a little larger to look good with the heroic type troops . The 1st plastic  German troop kit has smaller size rifles  ( on the separate sprue ) than the weapons on the newer German troops . But the MP 40 and MG 34 seem to have stayed the same ? The good thing about plastic figures is that you can easily mix and match various company’s parts to get the figure you want . Wargames Atlantic now has plastic WW1 Germans , and although the body types don’t thrill me the various arms and heads will probably be useful . IRC their next WW1 will be French .

I tend to use the smallerWarlord weapons as vehicle stowage ,examples – a couple of Enfields  in my CMP ,  Mausers  in wall racks in the 250 /251 half tracks and my US M3 HT gets the M3 Garand  .

• This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Jim Ripley.

[Kar98k]

Warlord’s newer weapons are probably a little larger to look good with the heroic type troops . The 1st plastic German troop kit has smaller size rifles ( on the separate sprue ) than the weapons on the newer German troops . But the MP 40 and MG 34 seem to have stayed the same?

I just compared them. The MP40s are a little bigger in the newer boxed sets compared the the older boxed sets that have the separate weapon sprues.

At this rate I guess they will need to change the description on the boxes from

30 multi-pose, hard plastic 28mm miniatures

to

30 multi-pose, hard plastic 31mm miniatures

[Jim Ripley]

Hopefully some company will release 1/56 scale  weapon and personal equipment sets in plastic , like you can get in 1/35 from Dragon ,  MiniArt  & Tamiya . That way you can toss the under / over scale bits and get all your figures looking pretty good . The other plastic  1/56 company  who shall not be named , has personal gear for various armies in their work in progress department . So that should help us out a bit , plus it might encourage others ( Warlord  , PSC , Atlantic ) to , maybe release a set or two . I managed to pick up a Tamiya 1/48 British figure set for cheap  , and while the weapons aren’t a perfect match , the personal gear is great , even if just used as vehicle stowage / clutter . The Infantry , while slimmer than Warlord , if shortened in height , would make a nice advancing squad , and the Tank troops fit great in most turret hatches . I’ve been using the plastic seated German’s lower bodies ( with short boots/ gaiters  ) to make seated Brits , and the jack boot versions make great seated Ivans .

[Kar98k]

I found this image and figured it was fitting to show here (pun intended).

[invisible officer]

From Kaiser’s time to modern Bundeswehr all German soldiers are fit, well shaped and motivated super soldiers.

😉

 

 

The modern guy surely was the model for the Warlord ……….

• This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by invisible officer.

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[LordRao]

I agree, on both counts. Examples include the different German boxed sets.

That said, there are also upsides: the beefier models are much more resilient (which is important to me as a wargamer) and the more restricted poses do mean that the figs are easier to assemble.

[Author]

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