Using a pak 43 or worse a 12.8 cm Kanone 81/2 in bolt action?

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  • #187318
    hazed100
    Participant

    Well probably like most of us who love a spectacular looking model or big artillery piece , i went ahead and bought the pak 43 cruciform AT gun from warlord only to then find it difficult to find a battle or theater in which i could field it!

    Then my greed for even meaner looking artillery led me to buy a beautiful looking 12.8 cm Kanone 81/2 !! (Rubicon models)

    So now im faced with an even bigger problem of finding a battle where this gun might possibly have been used?

    Can anyone help? Was there any documented uses of these weapons? (especially the 12.8cm kanone) or will i have to just hope opponents are up for the “what if” scenario in order to be able to use the very cool looking miniature big gun?

    I know for instance the 12.8cm kanone gun was a mix of the 12.8cm barrel and a russian 122mm howitzer gun carraige and i have seen a photo of one in the snow which i assume was on the eastern front but it could just as easily have been on a test range at the prototype stage.

    It would behave the same as the jagdtigers gun (power wise) so we have a ruleset to cover the gun itself in AT mode but not with a dual howitzer mode and im not sure what the price in points for a carraige based howitzer capable version of this gun would be.

    The Pak44 (also a 128mm i believe?) was on a cruciform platform with potential 360 degree of fire. Im pretty sure the 12.8cm kanone would have a terrible traverse range in action (i think something like 9 degree traverse and +45 degree max elevation) be almost impossible to manhandle without a vehicle and a very slow ROF due to 2 piece ammunition. However it did have 3 charge levels of light and medium charge (intended for use in a howitzer mode) and a high power charge for AT role so it should be classed as both a super heavy AT gun + a medium howitzer in fairness?.

    So im thinking limited travers rule of some kind? , same power as the 12.8cm gun in the jagdtiger in AT role, slow reload rate, perhaps some sort of extremely slow movement if it was to be moved or towed?. Where would it sit in the bolt action points range?

    So should i look at using the Soviet 122mm howitzer ruleset and adapt it slightly or better still does it already have ruleset in one of the many bolt action books?.

    If it does i probably have the book as i dont have many i dont own i just cant find any mention of it (or a similar gun) no matter how many times i look.

    Can anyone help? Have you fielded the 12.8cm AT guns in any form,or found historical evidence of its use in action? Have you found rules for them somewhere? Or have you suggestions on how to do so?

    Many thanks in advance !

     

    • This topic was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by hazed100.
    • This topic was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by hazed100.
    • This topic was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by hazed100.
    • This topic was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by hazed100.
    #187324
    Stuart Harrison
    Participant

    The Pak 44 is already in the Armies of Germany book, p43.
    Pak 43 is in most theatre selectors from Normandy onward, Pak 44 is in Spring Awakening and Last Levy.

     

    #187330
    invisible officer
    Participant

    The German AT gun servicewas ranked by size.

     

    8,8 and 12,8 cm AT guns had been part of the Atrmy and Corps artillery.   So not in division.  They got used mainly to defend “Schwerpunkte” where large enemy Tank forces had been expected.  The weight caused the static use, sometimes under concrete.  It was essential to protect the flanks.  And good air cover by camo and AA guns.

     

    You should not forget many German eavy   art. guns got AT amo too.   Normally to fight armored cuppolas of fortresses but alo for AT work. Like the 17cm in Mörserlafette. The official Datenblätter of HQ state at 3000. a 200 + mm piercing at up to 60°.

     

    So I sometimes hae one in my force.

    #187335
    Jacob Carter
    Participant

    As Stuart said there is both an entry for the 43 and the 44 in the armies of Germany book.

    Have you looked into what you’ll need to transport the thing?  If you play any scenario with a first wave/reinforcements you will need something to even bring it onto the table.  As someone who uses a FlaK 37 (which I also recommend getting, it’s an absolute monster), I’ll typically use a horse drawn carriage. Whether I bring it inexperienced or veteran is typically just what I feel like in that game; if I want the gun turn 1 I’ll take inexperienced at 8pts otherwise I’ll use a veteran (12 pts) to get as good of odds as I can to bring the gun on exactly when I need it where it’ll do the most damage

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Jacob Carter.
    #187340
    Steeljackal
    Participant

    Faq pg. 16

    “If a heavy artillery piece is not deployed (like in scenarios where
    everything starts off map), and the army does not include a tow/
    towing vehicle, does it mean the artillery piece cannot enter the
    battle? Is it lost, like reserves that fail to enter?
    We will make an exception to the rules in this case, allowing
    heavy guns that start off the table and have no tow, a single 6″
    move when they enter the table as first wave or from reserve (no
    outflanking!). Imagine that a horse-drawn limber or vehicle has
    towed them to the very edge of the table and then hastily retreated!”

    So no need of transport to enter on table if artillery is in first wave

    #187342
    Jacob Carter
    Participant

    Didn’t know that, I seriously don’t like that rule, I think that falls in with FAQ for Tiger Fear as a bad way to fix a problem.  I’d be willing to make an exception for someone just starting the game who may not have 1 in their army available, but you have EVERY opportunity to include a transport when you’re building a list.  I’d like it more if it was first wave only and you’d have to include a transport specifically for reserves, but that’s still not much better

    I really don’t know why I dislike it so much, it actually helps me out.  I think it might be because it rewards bad planning

    #187350
    Nat
    Participant

    A chunk of it (faq) is based on feedback from tournaments…

     

    The  you get a number of them banning the 15 point tows as they are just a possible one move and then a very cheap order die doing nothing…..

     

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