Unit sizes?

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  • #186723
    richard zamudio
    Participant

    In the Armies of Germany (2nd. edition), the unit size for German paratroopers is 10 men. In the the new Italy campaign book the size is 12 men. Any reason for the difference?

    #186727
    Nat
    Participant

    lack of concistancy in a warlord book, shock!

    Ok jokes aside, the Armies of … entries are generic to cover multiple years and doctirine /organisation changes (for example the Soviet LMG squad 6-12 men, 1 to 2 LMGs only when in the war where they ever 12 man with 2 LMGs?) where as the Campaign entries are (in theory at least) true to that campaign.

    (ps this is why I dont like the rule that allows an order test re-roll if the squad is at max strength… it basically says heres the rules so you can go historical, but heres a game rule that say its better if you dont…its confused)

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by Nat.
    #186773
    SteveT
    Participant

    Precisely historically accurate unit sizes are not particularly important in skirmish-scale games as the action is  not taking place on the parade ground, but mid-war or mid-fight, where forces varied due to shortages, official reorganisation, or on some temporary detachment/attachment at this scale at this point in time. Of course something roughly accurate is preferable, but I wouldn’t worry about why unit A was only 8 men in 1939 in May  but 9 men in 1945 at some particular engagement. If you go down that route you end up with a rather clone-like army (which another popular ww2 skirmish game illustrates and yet people champion that as a good point, which is beyond me since we are supposed to be modelling actual war, not parade ground idealised engagements)

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    #186775
    Kar98k
    Participant

    In the Armies of Germany (2nd. edition), the unit size for German paratroopers is 10 men. In the the new Italy campaign book the size is 12 men. Any reason for the difference?

    Simple really, because both are correct.

    Early in the war, the Fallschirmjäger squads had a full strength of eight to twelve men – eight and ten men for glider born squads and twelve men for paratrooper squads. Later this would change a bit (mid war to late war). Fallschirmjäger squads were ten and twelve men (at full strength).

    For their “Italy: Soft Underbelly” campaign book, they are using the twelve men squad organization for the Fallschirmjäger listings. Note however that full strength Fallschirmjäger squads can be made up of either ten or twelve men. I’m a bit surprised this was not explained better in the campaign book.

    Sadly though, they still treat the FG42 as an assault rifle. I guess it’s better than nothing.

    #186853
    richard zamudio
    Participant

    Just making conversation: Kar98k- What should the FG42 be categorized as? I am somewhat clueless as to what certain weapons ought to be in a game format :)!

    #186856
    Stuart Harrison
    Participant

    Generally argued that it should be an ‘automatic rifle’ on a par with the US BAR.

    Full rifle calibre, not a shortened rifle round.
    Selective fire, but fixed barrel limits rate of fire.
    20 round magazine.
    Bipod for accurate fire at range.

    #186859
    richard zamudio
    Participant

    Thanks for the3 information!

    #186866
    Kar98k
    Participant

    What should the FG42 be categorized as?

    Stuart already did a great job at responding to this, but I will add my thoughts.

    Using Bolt Action’s game mechanics, Weapons Chart (p.62), and Types of Weapons (p.63), the FG42 should really be considered an “Automatic Rifle” in the game for the same reasons Stuart already mentioned, but also to support its design purpose and how it was used in combat. Also, it should not get the “Assault” special rule (p.66).

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Kar98k.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Kar98k.
    #186869
    Jacob Carter
    Participant

    Hadn’t thought of the FG42 as an automatic rifle before, though now that you guys point it out it would make perfect sense.

    How would you guys change the squad makeup to maintain balance, since a full squad with those would be nightmarish?  I’m thinking something similar to (Late War) US Paratroopers where you’d add 1 automatic rifle to a squad for 5pts since you can also take two LMGs

    #186870
    invisible officer
    Participant

    Imagin the distribution of just 7500 weapons made and you have the answer. 1/3 never reaching front units. The FG 42, first used in 43, was no replacement for the K98 in real  action. 1 in a squad in addition to the LMG, or often as bad replacement, would be historical.

     

    Anything else is like the all Stug 44 units fielded by some gamers.   On paper some units had been planned but none served like that. Most squads never get one.

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