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  • #165788
    Mark Stanoch
    Participant

    Are French units in Mixed Order eligible for Pas de charge? This question was posed back in October of 2018 and I did not see a response.

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    #165789
    Big Al
    Participant

    Of course they are. Read the rules on Mixed Order formation.
    All Mixed Order means is that the unit has put its light troops out on skirmishing duties in front of it. There is no other difference. Essentially, it is the same formation with or without the skirmishers deployed, so it benefits from the usual rules.

    Also, a unit in Attack Column does not suffer like a line does when in Mixed Order. An Attack Column only gets a single shooting die, as it does when in Mixed Order, whereas a line loses two shooting dice when in Mixed Order.

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    #165791
    Mark Stanoch
    Participant

    My confusion surrounds the last paragraph on page 62 of Albion Triumphant vol 1. There the author refers to Mixed Order , not Mixed Formation and states “In Black Powder we offer no special rules to represent Mixed Order…”. The accompanying photo on the bottom of the page shows a brigade with 2 battalions in Line and 2 in attack column. None of these units have skirmishers deployed. So am I correct in assuming that for the Pas de charge benefit to be in effect all battalions of this brigade in Mixed Order must be deployed in Mixed Formation? Does this benefit accrue to those battalions in Line Mixed Formation?

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    #165792
    Big Al
    Participant

    Right, I think I know what you mean now. You mean a brigade of units that you are giving an order to as a whole and the units within are in different formations.
    This is covered in the main rule book. If you are issuing an order to a brigade that consists of different formations or different troop qualities, the lowest denominator takes precedence.
    So, in your example, those units in Attack Column would lose the benefit of Pas de Charge because of the other units holding them back.

    Also remember that units must all travel at the same speed, or rather, they must all end their movement within 6 inches of each other.

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    #165793
    Mark Stanoch
    Participant

    Big Al, thank you for your prompt and prompt response. You are indeed a wonderful asset for the BP community!

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    #165892
    Big Al
    Participant

    By the way, Mark, I am enjoying your posts on Facebook. The photos are great and your written commentary is clear and explains things very well. Well done!

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    #165894
    Mark Stanoch
    Participant

    Thanks Big Al. Black Powder is rather new to my area so I am in recruitment mode for new players right now. I find that if the participants have at least a passing understanding of the more complex rules in BP it makes the game much more frictionless and enjoyable. That is also why all my participation/demo games are played in 28mm😉

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    #169151
    Mark Stanoch
    Participant

    Battalion Gins in Hand-to-hand fighting in Last Argument of Kings.

    In our recent game of Mollwitz an Austrian Infantry regiment in Line was charged on its flank. The flank that was charged had the battalion gun so it was the initial point of contact.

    We resolved the melee by allowing the gun to conduct closing fire but all hand-to-hand hits were assessed on the parent infantry unit similar to how skirmishes behave during fire in Mixed Formation. Did we play that correctly?

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Mark Stanoch.
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    #169154
    Big Al
    Participant

    I would say that you did. The battalion gun is part of the unit, so it would be manned by members of the unit. Any casualties would be place on that unit. If it broke or was destroyed, the gun would go with it.
    The only reason to separate it out would be if it had a different fighting stat to the rest of the unit.

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    #170855
    John
    Participant

    Hi, just starting to learn the black powder rules.. had a question about how orders work. If an order fails, is it necessary to reorder the same unit to do the same thing the next turn?
    For example, say I have a unit of line infantry and announce “I order the 2nd Massachusetts to move in column up to the hill, deploy into line and engage whatever rebels they come across”
    Let’s say I roll for 2 actions, just enough to move the column up onto the hill, but not enough to deploy into line. Next turn, without a command would they simply stand still?

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    #170882
    Big Al
    Participant

    Yes, they would stand still. You need to issue an order each command phase. They will do exactly as you tell them (your opponent will make sure of that). If you fail the order completely, some units like those in Column, May get a free move. Most players move the unit the first part of the order. Of course, there is nothing to stop you doing something else, but it has become something of an unwritten rule brought about by the mantra of the rules that everyone is a gentleman and plays that way.
    The exception to giving an order by rolling dice, is the initiative move. This is still an order, but not one you have to roll for and it is only a single move. It can only be made if there is an enemy unit within 12 inches of your unit and that unit can react in any way it sees fit. It can withdraw, change formation, or charge. If you want it to do more, then you have to declare it and roll appropriately.

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    #170891
    John
    Participant

    Hmm interesting
    Thanks for the response
    Do you know why this rule is?

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    #170909
    Big Al
    Participant

    It is just because each turn is a separate thing. You may change your mind to react to the changing situation of your opponent’s move. There are no written orders, but the rule system is written so that you can tweak and change things. So, if you want to adopt a standing order, you can do so. I would suggest that you write down the standing order and place a marker next to the affected unit or brigade.

    I think that the reason for not having standing orders is that your opponent hears your declared order and ensures that you follow it to the letter. He may forget what your standing order was (as may you) and that would be a little unfair, which is why i suggested the use of a marker.

    To be honest, nobody has ever asked the question of why the rule is like that before. Rick rarely visits the rules anymore, but on occasion, will respond on Facebook.

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    #170910
    MGM
    Participant

    IF such an order was given “in real life” what would happen?
    I suspect that the unit would continue to act on that order until it was either:
    -fulfilled or
    -altered by circumstances.
    In that case, in the game, I would continue to roll for movement each turn (to simulate possible delay and confusion) BUT not require the order to be restated.
    Comments?

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    #171005
    Big Al
    Participant

    I know what you are saying, but it amounts to the same thing – rolling for the movement against the command rating, to issuing a new order. Call it as you will, you will end up reminding your opponent of the original order, which will be the same as issuing the order again.

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