[Charge The Guns]

Hi Steven.  We try to stick with option 3 – based on what would seem reasonable for an order to group of battalions, for example.  2 just feels ‘gamey’ i.e. how would you give that order?  1 is at risk of players being a bit cheesey.  It is a bit imprecise I suppose, and the group needs to agree how they want to work it to avoid argument and keep the game moving along quickly.

[Charge The Guns]

We usually play that you can’t target enemy troops with shooting unless next to the hedge, but that you can declare charges without needing to be next to them.

[Charge The Guns]

Hi Mark. Yes, I believe the ‘Bad War’ rule was meant to be used. I think that in the Covenanter’s list the rule is referred to as Bad War there.

[Charge The Guns]

Well done for getting the whole Legion done 👍.

I suggest you make the 1st cohort a ‘large’ unit as that will increase its stat line and it will be a suitably tougher unit compared to the other units in the legion.

Good luck fighting those barbarians. 😀

[Charge The Guns]

Hi Tomasz,  I think for ECW or TYW dragoons the rules expect them to stay as skirmishers whether mounted or dismounted.  See the description on p 83 of the main rule book or p114 of the Epic P&S rule book.   The information on changing formation (main rule book p28) certainly suggests some units can move from battle line to skirmish and back again.  I don’t think there is any historical precedent to say the dragoons couldn’t fight in regular ranks and files, so I would allow personal interpretation in my games.

It is perhaps something to agree with you opponents before the game starts if you think it will be an issue?

[Charge The Guns]

Hi Dennis – I’m not aware that Warlord have made any comment about Croats/Cossacks, yet.  I suspect they would be in resin if they do them as I’m not sure they would go the plastic route for a troop type they might not sell very many of.  Maybe they are waiting to see how many 30YW versions of the Epic stuff they sell first?  You may need to look at other 15mm ranges for some suitable Croat types in the short term.

Finnish horse are easier. You can use the same figures as you do for the Swedish horse.  Although people love to highlight the Finnish horse, they weren’t equipped differently to the rest of the Swedish horse.

Hope this helps?

Good luck with your projects, and I hope that you and your mate will come and share your progress here.

[Charge The Guns]

I agree with Gary’s view  – all makes sense to me 🙂

[Charge The Guns]

I think that the different types of commanders were devised on the assumption that often commands were composed of primarily one troop type, and that some armies had less or more effective commanders for either foot or horse.  An example is the Ottomans where the infantry commander have a relatively poor 7 command, and the cavalry a better 8.  This should mean that the Ottomans have a more static role for their infantry in battle (as they often did) where as the cavalry were the main manoeuvre  part of the army.

I would suggest that you are guided by how your army was split up in to brigades / battalia historically, but accept that you can’t be too rigid.  For example, in the ECW, there are many occasions when the main central infantry command had a few cavalry units included.  Perhaps you could say that only the Army commander can do this in their command?

Hope this helps 🙂

• This reply was modified 10 months ago by Charge The Guns.

[Charge The Guns]

Hi John,

Very sorry to hear you are having a struggle getting started.  I’ll take a pitch at trying to help with some suggestions.

I think part of the issue is that the rules aren’t very prescriptive about how you form units, brigades and armies as they wanted to be a flexible as possible.  This is great for people with existing forces but of course can be very confusing if you are just starting out.

I also suspect that what appears on one of the plastic frames was more about maximising the figures on a frame, and also trying to provide a range of unit types, rather than expecting to produce an ideal starting force.

It sounds like you have a gaming group that you are planning to play games with.  This is a massive help.  The key thing with BP is that you agree between you how big you expect units to be, and also what sort of forces you want to use in games. The “army lists” are really just trying to be some guidelines to help people put together what is a reasonable force to play a game, and it sounds like they are not helping which is a pity.

I expect you will find that people don’t actually use the lists much once they have started playing a few games, and hence the anomalies you point out aren’t discussed much. (The bit about the brigade make up for French cavalry has been pointed out on the forum before, and it certainly looks like a mistake in the wording.)

My suggestion is that you agree in your group how you want to form units and brigades to start with.  Perhaps just have three stands of infantry to a battalion to start with, and three stands of cavalry to regiment.  You can expand these as you get more painted.  I would leave the skirmishers off to start with – one less thing to worry about in the rules.

Then I would form three battalions of infantry in to a brigade, and perhaps aim to have two infantry brigades. To start with I would have two brigades of cavalry, each brigade with two regiments in.  I would not worry about which types of cavalry are in a brigade at this point.

Finally add a battery of artillery to one of the infantry brigades, and a commander to each brigade, with one overall commander.  Do the same for the British, and then have a couple of games.

As you start to get more familiar with the rules, and as you get more stuff painted,  you can then start to figure out how your group wants units to look and how to form brigades, and indeed whole forces, for games.

I think with all wargames rules, how ever experienced you are, it is much easier to learn them playing with someone else who knows the rules already.  Are you in the UK anywhere near Worcester?  The gaming group I belong to (The Friends of General Haig) play on Saturday afternoons near Worcester and we play a lot of BP Napoleonics.  You and your buddies would be very welcome to come and join in a game and I’m sure we could help iron out some wrinkles.

Hoping that this helps rather than making things more confusing 🙂

Cheers, Andy @ The Friends of General Haig.

[Charge The Guns]

You’re very welcome, Mark.

I’m glad you’ll be giving the rules another go – I definitely think they are worth it.  The overall system is straightforward, especially as you’re already up to speed with HC.  They are also very flexible and easy to tinker with.

[Charge The Guns]

Hi Mark

If the musketeers are within 3” of the pike then they can provide support.  Being able to provide support does not depend in anyway on the order a unit has received.  Good luck 👍.

Hi Dave,

I think I’ve seen these before, but a good reminder and they are certainly a well thought through set of factors for using combined units. 👍

[Charge The Guns]

Hi Mark,

Troops provide support based on their position relative to a combat.  The orders they have received that turn are irrelevant – you don’t need to be given an order to support to provide support.

I wonder if perhaps the the section and Charging Units and Support Units (p62) is causing some confusion?  I can see that the first sentence of this section could be worded better.

This section is trying to say that troops being moved up so they are in the right position to give support have to be given a different order to any troops in a group who are being ordered to charge.  You can’t give a single group order if one unit is to charge unless all of the units  actually charge.  You can’t use a group order to move one unit in to contact and to move other units forward.

In your example, B’s muskets will provide support to the pike at the end of every melee based on their position (eg within 3”).  Orders don’t matter.

Hope this helps?

• This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by Charge The Guns.

[Charge The Guns]

Hi Mark,

You’re right (see p62 of main rules).  The move of A’s musket blocks up to support the pike have to be a different order.

When you come to work out the result of combat ‘supports’ have to be within 3”.  Note that supports don’t fight directly in the melee as they do in Hail Caesar, but instead give a modifier to the combat result.  So, if B’s musket blocks are within 3” of the pike block they can support.  One way to prevent B having this advantage is for A to charge all three units together 😀.

Supports in P&S are not engaged in combat and so are free to shoot and also to be shot at.

One slight oddity in the rules for which you may want to agree an interpretation in your group is if, in your example, B’s muskets could shoot at A’s pike unit as it charges in to B’s pike. Strictly speaking the rules don’t allow this and we have had several discussions about it.  We have decided to allow ‘supporting fire’ (we have made a similar special rule for commanded shot brigaded with horse) but important that everyone knows this at the start of the game.

Hope the clarifications help. 👍

[Charge The Guns]

Hi Mark – great to hear that you are giving P&S a try 👍.

Great question and this can be a bit confusing because the answer is “yes”, ie you can play either way.   Some prefer to fight the pike and shot units separately as different units, and some prefer to fight as a single, combined unit.  In our group it varies depending on the size of game.  For very larger games, such as reconstructing Marston Moor, we have used combined units to speed up play.  For most games though, with perhaps no more than 5 or 6 pike and shot units a side, we fight them separately.

If you have just the main rule book then you could try using the unit factors under the Sun King scenario (back of the book) for combined units.  If you have the ‘To Kill A King’ supplement (and why wouldn’t you! 😀) then this has some further suggested alternative factors for combined units.

If you want to fight them as separate units then use the factors as per the main lists in either the main rule book or the supplements.

Hope this helps, and good luck with you exploration of the period.

Cheers,

Andy @ FoGH.

[Charge The Guns]

Hi Tomasz – I think it makes sense that earthworks etc. have the same effect as a building if they encompass a unit rather than just being a wall.  Note that as well as proving the bonus buildings also mean you can’t claim Support from units as well.

[Author]

Posts