Motorcycle Squads

[Charles]

I’m trying to figure out how to make kradschuetzen work effectively and am having no luck. I love the models, so I don’t want to give up on the cool factor too quickly. I’ve reasoned their benefit is rapid movement and I try to move them out first, but all they seem to do is move and get shot down as they can’t go down and can’t go into rough ground or woods for cover. Maybe they should move last up to 24″ and get off at the start of the next turn. If I hold them in reserve, they lose the movement benefit as the opponent approaches. Is anyone having any luck with these? I’ve tried a squad of cavalry and have gotten far better results than with motorcycles.

I can’t find a way to search the forum for previous posts, so if this has already been discussed, please let me know which thread.

[Master Chief]

In general I think this is true for any unit that advances first into enemy territory, although some might have the benefit of cover as you have mentioned. You could consider laying some smoke to cover your kradschuetzen’s advance. Or you could use HE to pin the intended target before moving up you kradschuetzen. Otherwise you could also use your kradschuetzen as “sacrifice” to induce an enemy unit to use up an order and fire on them, upon which on your next order you advance up another (more powerful?) unit to fire upon (and hopefully kill) the enemy unit that just killed your kradschuetzen.

In a sense Bolt Action is a more complex version of chess with more variables and rules, but some basic “truths” remain e.g. moving an unprotected chess piece into the enemy board spells death; sacrifice some units to gain an advantage etc.

[invisible officer]

It’s a classic tabletop  problem. You see everything so recce is not really necessary.

The Kradschützen had been recce units, most serving with the Panzer units.  Moving as fast but also able to dismount infantry for supporting the tanks.  The problem was the bad ratio of sidecar bikes between driver and infantry dismounting, 1 to 2. So most units got later converted into the special Panzergrenadier battalion units in Aufklärungsabteilungen. With SdKfz 250 a much better ratio.

 

It was not the armor that was the reason!  Giving them some splinter shelter but the APC was not intended as a fighting vehicle. But supporting the foot from behind. So they got mortars and short 75mm guns mounted.

 

Use them like the true Panzergrenadiere in unarmored Panzergrenadier  Battalions on Lorries. in most Panzerdivisions just half had APC.  Kradschützen, Recce Panzergrenadiere and other Panzergrenadiere had been spevially trained in cooperation with Panzer units. But at last ever: Just mobile infantry.

 

Lorry or bike retreated to cover. The bike mounted LMG dismounted with the Gruppe. Firing from bike was a rare exception. Not like Indiana Jones….  😉

[Charles]

I appreciate the advice. I keep reaching the conclusion that they’re not worth the point cost and so not worth buying the figures.

A squad of 8 regular motorcyclists costs 80 points plus 40 points to put on bikes. They can either move up to 24″ or shoot, but not both. If I only move them 12″, there’ no benefit to bringing motorcycles as infantry can run 12″. If they could fire as part of that advance order, that could be worth it. By comparison, a squad of 8 regular infantry cost 80 points and I could put them in a truck for 39 points. The truck can advance 12″ and the infantry can get out 6″ into cover AND shoot.

One thing that’s not clear in the rules is that the motorcycle rule says they can dismount as any part of an advance move. What does that mean? If they dismount with an advance order and are on foot, can they shoot that turn too as it’s part of an advance order? Does that mean they could move 12″ by motorcycle, dismount up to 6″ away from the vehicles and shoot because they’re on foot, or at least move 12″ and dismount in place and shoot? That could make them worth the trouble of painting.

[Master Chief]

Don’t think of the Kradschützen unit as operating on its own. You will need to come up with a “strategy” to use them in conjunction with your other units to achieve the scenario objectives. This will depend on the objective, the terrain, etc.

 

Bolt Action 2nd Ed page 90:

Motorbikes are generally treated as units of infantry except where noted below. Bikers can dismount and fight on foot as infantry, from which point none of these rules apply.

A motorbike unit can dismount as part of any Advance move.

My understanding is the Kradschützen unit is an infantry unit itself and not an infantry unit onboard a transport unit. Hence it cannot dismount 6in away from the bikes. What should happen is it can advance 12in (motorbike rules) and dismount at the spot at end of that move. As to whether it can fire as part of the Advance move after dismounting, I would say yes.

To complicate things further, the Kradschützen unit in the Western Desert book (page 92) can fire its LMG (if LMG is taken) without dismounting after an Advance order. It costs the same points as the one in the German book but has 2 fewer men – 1 NCO and 3 men.

[Charles]

That would help. If it’s a reasonable reading of the rules that motorcycles are basically infantry, and that motorcycles can advance 12″ and dismount in place as part of that advance, and that they can also fire that turn as infantry are allowed to fire as part of an advance move, that could make them work. A squad entering from reserves could run 24″ one turn and then go 12″ and shoot the next is a viable option to make them worth some points. My main goal is to just have a squad on the table as part of my DAK platoon mostly because they’re cool figures. So far, they’ve been a complete waste of points. If they provide even a little benefit, I’ll keep them in my OB. It just seemed strange that a veteran cavalry squad can be more devastating than a motorcycle platoon as the cavalry can move through rough ground and shoot and assault from 9″ to 18″ away with the tough fighter rule and then regroup 2D6 and can even get extra dice if they’re armed with lances and recce away from trouble if they haven’t moved yet. The motorcycles just seem far more limited than that.

[invisible officer]

With DAK Motorbicycle units are a must.  And naturally no German horse there, not like in Europe. There more cavalry served than Kradschützen.

In fact the heavy German BMW and Zündap are great, even 2020 – On streets. Pure fun to drive, or in sidecar.  But even in European countryside not nice to move away from street. In Africa’s dunes it was horrible, even with two wheels driven.

 

The rules can not show the campaign advantage of flexible  motor transport along Panzer and fast Light Divisions. Horse units not being able to follow as fast.

[Paul Nettle]

One of the problems is the generic definition of “rough” ground.  Dense woodland, deep mud, sand and rubble are given as examples, and whilst riding a motorbike (particulalry a combination) through sand and mud is not easy it is certainly possible (there are lots of WWII pictures to support this).

Cavalry should not be able to move through dense woodland without dismounting.  If you don’t believe me, try it.  The horse only cares that the horse can get under a branch.

[MRenye]

I am about to play my first game using a squad.

I have a couple of thoughts on how to make them at least points neutral.  My plans at least… we shall see…

1. They only ever RUN or FIRE.

2. They never dismount

3. Use their RECCE ability to make my opponent waste a unit shooting at them while they escape.  This will mean they have to be the last thing to move in the previous turn so they get into a “harassment” position (like on a flank threatening a small weapons team or something).

4. Hold them in reserve to quickly grab an objective in those scenarios with objectives.

 

[MRenye]

This is slightly off topic, but where do the Disembarking rules state that troops can dismount 6 inches away from the transport.

2nd Ed says that measurement is taken from the transport.  My one opponent had the same impression that his transports could catapult their cargo at the enemy and we could not find any wording anywhere to support that.  Perhaps a holdover from 1st Ed??  Thanks!

 

[Stuart Harrison]

@MReyne – “where do the Disembarking rules state that troops can dismount 6 inches away from the transport.”

See p116, Vehicles, Transport Vehicles, Dismounting From Transports, third para, second sentence.  The unit is ordered to advance or run “Make the action as normal, measuring from the vehicle” – this allows a unit to dismount up to 6 inches away from the transport on an Advance order, or up to 12″ away on a Run order.

Not relevant to this discussion as a squad dismounting from it’s bikes is not the same as a squad dismounting from a transport vehicle.

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