Sniper vs Weapons Teams

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    Troy Hill

    Snipers firing at weapons teams… and snipers as weapons teams. Saw this come up on another table yesterday, and want to make sure the brain trust at the club (all four of us) figured it out correctly.

    1. A sniper firing at a weapon, in this case a mortar, scores a hit, and declares the gent holding the mortar tube as target. Destroys him.

    That also destroys the weapon, and the men and weapon would be removed. Correct?

    2. Return fire at the sniper later on. Exceptional Damage was scored against him. The guy with the sniper rifle was declared the target and destroyed.

    Normally, this would wipe out the Sniper team, because of the Weapons Team Rule… however…

    The Armies of the USA book (didn’t see it in any other army books for the sniper) says that both members of a sniper team are trained as snipers, so if the sniper (dude with scoped rifle) is killed, the other dude in a US Sniper team, is still sniping (with penalty to hit due to other team member being destroyed).

    Other nation’s two-man sniper squads would normally be destroyed if the dude with the scope is killed off. But not the US snipers.

    Did we get that figured out correctly, or did we miss something?

    Carl E. Corrado

    Regarding the Mortar question, I beleive that you would need to roll again and if you roll a 6, then exceptional damage and then can declare the mortar tube as damaged and out, at least that is the way we have interperted the rule.


    Gerry Brawley

    All Sniper teams die if they team is hit by exceptional damage. The actual entry for the US Sniper says a Sniper and a Spotter like all the others. If one was still allowed to fire when one died they would be a differmt points value.


    Regarding the mortar question:
    If the sniper successfully rolls to hit, and then successfully rolls to damage, this always counts as exceptional damage. This means the sniper can pick any model in the target as a casualty.

    Also, remember there is not pre-measuring and you have to declare if the sniper team is using the scope. If the target is within 12″, the sniper shot automatically misses.

    See page 91 “Sniper” for all the details.

    Regarding the sniper team question:
    Gerry Brawley is correct. All Sniper teams have a Sniper and a Spotter, and can be removed if the team is hit by exceptional damage and the firing player picks the sniper. Note, that if the firing player wanted to, he/she can pick the spotter instead.

    Troy Hill

    actually, they are different points:

    Armies of the USA pg28 Reg: 52 or Vet: 67
    Armies of Germany pg35 Reg: 50 or Vet: 65

    The only difference I can see is the ability to upgrade the US Sniper teams pistols into SMGs, which they pay for by the weapon.

    Is the 2 extra points for the swapping roles, or for the ability to add SMGs instead of pistols?

    Stuart Harrison

    It’s for the presence of the pistols in the first place. Second Edition AoG writer seems to have forgotten to add them when he took the 50 point first edition sniper team with just the sniper’s rifle and added the pistols (he wasn’t the first – that honour went to the author of AoGB).

    Warlord has a chronic problem with proofreading and general consistency between books.

    Troy Hill

    How then, should we discern which text in the paragraph descriptor in the Army Lists are “fluff” and which are rules?

    This appears rather confusing with no rhyme or reason.

    Stuart Harrison

    Rules appear in the special rules section of the entry. Fluff appears in the text above the unit stats.

    It’s a simple as that – if they talk about it in the fluff, but don’t reflect it in the stats, it didn’t make it into the game. That’s an author’s decision or an authors failure – bringing it into the game when it only appears in the fluff is house rules territory.

    Slyde Klewlis

    Also remember snipers can not do exceptional damage vs anything listed as Artillery type units per second edition rules.

    Troy Hill

    Is this that rule?

    “Damage on Artillery units” it specifies that with small arms fire “cannot damage the gun itself. Casualties are always taken from amongst the crew even where exceptional damage is caused. Heavy Weapons fire is also resolved against the crew in the same way…” and it makes an exception for Heavy Weapons fire, which CAN kill the gun’s firer to take out the gun itself.

    The question becomes, what constitutes “Artillery” in the rules. Reading the Artillery section, just about any big gun, indirect or direct fire, is included.

    But, is a mortar an artillery piece? Sense would say, no, it’s man-pack weapon, but the description of a mortar includes “…proving short-ranged artillery support…”

    I like Allesio and Rick for game writing, but they always seem to leave out a few descriptions that would clarify a few situations that rules lawyers are likely to argue if it gives them an advantage.

    Stuart Harrison

    Artillery is listed in the artillery section of army lists/selectors. Mortars are infantry – they appear in the infantry squads and teams section of army lists/selectors.


    Is this true for heavy mortars as well?


    yep…. they are an infantry support squad.

    Artillery is:
    Generic Howitzers / artillery guns (depending on forces book)
    AT Guns
    AA guns

    Tim Haslam

    BA is very simplistic,
    There are only 3 types of units,

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