Supporting Artillery auto-killed?

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  • #180333
    SteveT
    Participant

    Just had this situation:

    Cavalry charged a line unit.  Alongside the line unit, to its left, was an artillery unit. I think this counts as supporting the infantry.

    The line unit did badly and their break test resulted in destruction.

    Supports have to do a break test if their friends are lost.  But in the case of artillery, looking at the chart on p.79, all results end in “artillery destroyed”

    Have I got this right?

     

    Thanks so much for your time.

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    #180334
    Big Al
    Participant

    You are really going to have to read through the rules. Yet again, you are missing out important things, like the infantry forming Square if they are being charged to their front. If they Form Square, the cavalry don’t charge home, which then protects the artillery.

    To answer your question, yes, the artillery breaks. You can’t choose whether a unit supports or not. Well, you can by not placing it so close to other units, but that would leave them a little exposed.

    You say that the infantry did badly. Well, as mentioned on another post, if you did not use the Form Square Rule, then the infantry get to shoot at the chargers with closing fire. (Again, see the rules for this). That may cause some casualties that will not count toward combat resolution, but will affect a resultant break test. Then, the infantry fight back. They get more attacks than the cavalry, and to get mauled as you have said, means that you have rolled some pretty poor dice, not only for their saves, but also for their attacks.

    During a combat, both sides roll dice to attack and then make saves. Charging units get +1 to their attacks, so hit on 3+ while the defenders hit on 4+. Combat resolution is the number of casualties caused by each side, one subtracted from the other. On top of that is added a +1 for any supporting units (effectively another casualty), giving the result and the margin of the win. The losing side takes the break test.

    The way you are representing situations in your questions implies that you are not applying all of the rules. It makes it difficult to give you the full answers that you are looking for.

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    #180335
    SteveT
    Participant

    They had failed to form a square (p.89 failed to form on a double 1). I was really asking if the artillery support was killed. Seems yes.

     

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    #180336
    Big Al
    Participant

    Wow! I have to say that they were extremely unlucky. I have  never failed to Form Square and I’ve not only been playing since v1 was released, but I suffer from poor dice rolling, too. So much so, that a friend I was helping to play test his Rules began changing them. I pointed out that my poor rolls didn’t mean that his rules were faulty and needed amending.

    Your failure, to Form Square,  the failure to cause casualties and the chronic failure of the break test has to be the unluckiest dice results I’ve ever come across.

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    #180379
    SteveT
    Participant

    Failing to form a square on our first attempt ever was very unlucky. But it’s going to happen, on average,  once in every 36 attempts. After that the infantry were destined to get chopped up. And they were.

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    #180382
    Nat
    Participant

    Taking the units involved as normal sized normal cav…

    you’ve got 6 dice HTH from the Cav hitting on 3s with a 4+ moral save on the infantry – 2-3 casualties

    Infantry hit back on 5s (disorderd) with a 4+ save on the Cav – 0-1 casualties

    In combat resolution the infantry get +1… so do stand a chance of getting a draw.

     

    However if the cavalry would touch the artillery then in charge response the artillery then wouldnt it be able to declare closing fire (at the same time as the square is attempted)?…… thats 3 shots hitting on 3s with a -2 to saves…..

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    #180390
    Big Al
    Participant

    Nat – yes, if the cavalry contacted the artillery as well, then it could give closing fire. However, that situation wasn’t mentioned in the question.

    SteveT – I have never failed to Form Square. I’ve lost count of how many games I have played since the release of the game back in 2010. It is one of the complaints about the rule that many players have, that it is too easy to Form Square and one of the supplements has a suggestion to make it more difficult. Working on the mathematical average of 1 in 36 just doesn’t work out in reality.

    +1
    #180556

    Hi Big Al. Wow you have never failed to form square. brought a smile to my face. In my very first game of BP, the first time an infantry unit was charged by cavalry the roll to form square came up double 1’s! That wasn’t the end of it. In the combat phase, the cavalry rolled all 1’s and 2’s and failed to score a single hit, resulting in the infantry fighting off the cavalry attack. Can’t say its ever happened again, but what a way to start 🙂

    Ben.

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    #180558
    Big Al
    Participant

    Seriously, Ben, I haven’t! And I have played a lot of games! Just lucky, I suppose.

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    #180561
    George
    Participant

    So, please clarify, despite the lousy odds coming through. If the Infantry breaks is the supporting artillery destroyed?

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    #180565
    Nat
    Participant

    Yes they are DEAD & GONE!

     

    In fact if it was HtH that causes a break test dont bother rolling it just remove them as EVERY result is Artillery is Dead 🙁

     

     

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    #180566
    Big Al
    Participant

    Always! Artillery are proper lightweights. If you just blow on them, they will disappear. They don’t want to fight, they want to shoot.

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