Epic Waterloo – rules

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  • #187446
    SteveT
    Participant

    I understand the starter set comes with a modified rules set.  Does it included some of the ideas from the older Black Powder  suppliments? Clash of Eagles. etc

    Cheers

    #187448
    Big Al
    Participant

    I don’t know, to be honest, because I am not doing Naps in another scale. I do have the ACW version and that has some from the Glory Hallelujah supplement, including a couple of scenarios.

    However, it shouldn’t matter because the rules haven’t really changed. The game is still the same, just a different scale. So, you just play it as you always did and bring in whatever tweaks that you feel are right for your games. The main thing is the suggestion of measurements, centimetres or half distances (centimetres are easier) and the frontage of the units due to the prescribed base sizes.

    Basically, you do what you want.

    #187466
    Mark
    Participant

    Bits from Albion Triumphant 2 – Certainly the army lists are fully lifted.

    I’ve not checked 100%, but at least one of the scenarios looks to be the same (of 5 in the new Epic book).

    All the pictures and information boxes are Waterloo rather than other periods/conflicts which is nice.

    Worth getting the new rules IMHO.

     

    #187492
    Legere
    Participant

    It contains some of the additional rules from Albion Triumphant 2.  It’s a useful book IMO as I prefer the size / weight for carrying round, it’s also Napoleonic specific which I like.  In addition there are some Epic specific changes relating to the numbers of bases used and the impact on formations.

    There are sadly a few errors, the Skirmishers restriction (explained in BP1 WRT Napoloenic units and only those with the Skirmisher rule being able to form Skirmish Order at will vs those only allowed to use it when entering / passing through terrain they would normally be prevented from entering).  Units in the lists still have the ‘rule’, but nowhere does the book state what it means, that was an omission in BP2 as well mind.  Simple copy paste error too with the Household Brigade being correctly listed in AT2 but not in Epic.

    One issue with the Epic book is that it’s a compilation of BP2 and AT2, nothing wrong with that per se, except that it might appear that additional rules like Pas de Charge are actually rules, rather than additional Supplement rules that always made it clear that they were optional.  It’s one of the rules I’m on the fence about but, having the BP2 book and the supplements, I know I needn’t use it (and likely won’t if not using other nations that can also form Attack Column, thus POSSIBLY having a need to differentiate between them and the French).  Those coming straight to the game via Epic might think PdC is a bit overpowered, not realising that it’s optional.  That said, I’m sure the Epic book makes the tool box philosophy clear, I haven’t checked it line by line.

    Overall though, I really like the Epic book but I’m glad I have BP2 and the Supplements.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by Legere.
    #187494
    Big Al
    Participant

    I think it was a mistake making changes to the main book. It means that two people playing the game may have a different understanding of the rules because they are different. Neither would be wrong, just one would be misled. The mini rulebook (which I would never read because The print is too small) should be the same as the large format rulebook, because that is the one that you can buy. The rules for Epic Napoleonic should be the same for any scale, except for the change in distances. So, this is only going to cause confusion. If someone asks what a particular rule is or means, I will always answer as per the large format book. My answer could be incorrect if the question is for the Epic book. It also means that a player will have to have several copies of the rulebook, which is ridiculous.

     

    one question, has the Epic rulebook included all of the rules from AT2, or have the obsolete ones, like two Attack Columns charging a line, been left out? If things like that have been left in, it is going to cause confusion because it contradicts the rule that only one unit can charge a single unit quarter!

    #187509
    SteveT
    Participant

    Hence my opening  question …

    #188872
    Legere
    Participant

    @Big Al  Sorry for the late reply, I use so many forums I tend to only visit the most active on a regular basis, particularly given the wholesale migration of forums to FB (which I’m not keen on, stuff just disappears too quickly, sinking into the tide of “My painted X”).

    As to the AT2 rules in the Epic book, it’s hard to say really as there isn’t a section in the book entitled “Suggested New Rules for Napoleonics” unlike in the supplements where they are all bundled together. It seems that in the Epic book, whatever changes have been brought in have actually been incorporated into the rules as changes, not clearly marked that they are not BP core rules.  Taking a quick look it appears that there is no option for 2 attack columns to charge a line and the book makes it clear that it’s one on one with a couple of exceptions (2 battalions or Standard or smaller size being able to charge a large battalion in line).  In a typical Warlord proof-reading fo-pah there is actually a line of text that says “The accompanying diagram when an Attack column charges a line, maximising its frontage as it does so”.  Of course the accompanying diagrams on that page (and the pages before and after) do not show that at all!

    It does seem though that they have made adjustments to special rules, I can’t recall the detail know (and I can’t be bothered to look it up) but IIRC the “Marshall’s Baton / Knapsack” from AT1 or AT2 was effectively rendered obsolete when BP2 came out given the changes to the way commanders were dealt with, in the BP Epic book the Baton special rule is there which can be applied to some commanders which merely then gives them the Inspirational leader quality from the list of commanders qualities.  Quite why they need to persist with these largely pointless and confusing ways of describing rules (e.g. why do they just not say for 10 points you can give X French divisional or army commanders the Inspirational quality) is beyond me.

    I still like BP but for me it really does need the supplement rules to make it more Napoleonic, otherwise it’s just playing a generic game where it’s just the colours of the soldiers that are different.  The problem with that is that we have BP1, the three Nap supplements, BP2 (which rendered some special rules obsolete but Warlord couldn’t be bothered to do an FAQ / Errata explaining that) and now, Epic Napoleonic with yet another version of the rules.  Coupled with Warlord’s frequent copy/paste errors and lack of proof reading I now find flicking back and forth through the various books really, REALLY tiresome to such an extent that I have more recently switched to playing General d’Armee (a well written, Napoleonic specific, clearly laid out and well presented set of rules where everything is in one place!) and, with the changes that I see for v2 of GdA (due for release this summer AFAIK), that switch will likely be permanent.

    Apologies for the OT swipe at BP but, while others are happy to use vanilla BP for everything across the board (e.g. just swap ACW for Napoleonic army), I’m not.  It’s when you start going “off piste” that the problems start, trying to find what is current and what is not, or even where it is, as answering your question shows.  Great rules, by and large, but hard work IMO.

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