War wagons

[Donald]

I’ve not long purchased the rules & dived in with three Bronze Age games – and a fourth on this Sunday – using NKE & Hittite armies.

I’m currently working on my Mycenaeans & Sea Peoples. I have a couple of Sea Peoples’ ox carts. The obvious thing to do with these is to designate them as baggage but I was thinking of a more active role.Slow but with good defence (stamina).

Hail Caesar doesn’t have a “war wagon” troop type. Any thoughts on this? What stats might I use?

donald

[Mike]

The Sea Peoples Hail Ceasar Warlord Supplement Biblical and Classical armies provides for Baggage Wagons with a base profile of 3/3/1/0/4+/6 and Special Stubborn rule.  I think that is a good starting point.

I don’t see them “attacking”.  So, you may opt not to let them attack and move at the wagon rate (same as infantry).  Now, you have to decide what their purpose was… if they were used as firing platforms, I would substitute a small missile Range profile onto the profile above (use the missile unit’s Short-Range and Long-Range profile).  Consider the unit in cover plus stubborn for morale purposes which combined with wagon 6 stamina makes it hard to destroy.

That produces a profile for a missile manned war wagon of…

3/3/2/0 or 2 (depending on weapon)/4+/6 plus the unit is always considered in cover and gets the Stubborn special rule.  Also, the unit cannot initiate an attack or countercharge.

[Big Al]

Count them as ordinary infantry types (spears or archers) as if in square. This means that they ignore all break test results except “unit breaks.” A square is limited in the way it moves. Normally, it cannot advance, but can retire, but as this is a wagon, I would suggest that it moves slowly and cannot charge.

[Donald]

Thanks for the replies. I’ll experiment with your suggestions.

We’ve been using FoG for many years & I don’t want to be harsh but those rules suck the fun out of a game.

Hail Caesar seems to be very enjoyable indeed. Down the track, I’ll start with our Punic & Late Roman armies but for the moment – all things chariot.

 

donald

[invisible officer]

The temple of Ramses III relief show the carts  drawn by more than two oxen (= Slow) and with just one axle in mid of base (= unstable)  They seem to be ordinary trasport, carrying the belongimgs and kids. So more like a modern camper, not an APC.

 

Instead of adding power to a force they would seperate the fighters into the “crews” of a few peoples. With civilists in the way.   Formed into a line , following each other, they might prevent the enemy war vehicles from crossing that line.  But the far more mobile chariots will pass and pepper the targets with arrows and spears. Dwars line would be even more vulnarable.

 

Only very good tactical managing would make the carts into a Hussite style moving castle. And for good reasons these had been 4 wheeled.

 

The relief clearly shows the Egyptian forces clearing out the carts one by one.  I think they got attacked on the march and the men had no time to form a fighting line on foot. Trying the best to defend the families. No hint that they formed a wall.

 

So for me: Just baggage train

• This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by invisible officer.

[Donald]

I appreciate your plausible interpretation. It might be useful to remember that the Egyptian temple reliefs contain more than a little propaganda? I believe pharaoh destroyed 2500 Hittite chariots at Kadesh – single-handed!

I don’t think the ox wagons of the Sea Peoples to be any sort of APC. It is not impossible that they could be used as a relatively * slow-moving barrier – not unlike how the Goths used their wagons at Adrianople or even the Boer wagon lagers.  Just because such transports were intended for civilian use does not preclude the impossibility of a military application. At any rate, there are so many gaps in our understanding of Bronze Age military history that I feel I can use the ox wagons as a type of war wagon without overly stretching possibility.

So for me: war wagon.

* in gaming terms, the wagons must move at infantry speeds or they are useless.

• This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by Donald.
• This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by Donald.
• This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by Donald.

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