Small unit frontages

[SteveT]

Looking at page 23, why do small infantry units have the same frontage as standard units?

I was thinking that 2 small units can align to fight 1 standard unit, but this wouldn’t be the case according to p 23.

Cheers

 

[Charge The Guns]

Hi Steve T, I think page 23 is trying to say that you may scale your unit frontages differently depending on how your figures are based. In an ideal world both sides need to end up with the same frontage for units (even if the number of figures doesn’t match).

If you look at the factors for units, two small match to one large. For my forces I have 120mm frontage for a regular unit, 80mm for small, and 160mm for large. This is because I base my foot on 20mm but 20mm bases. Note that I’m typically playing ECW/TYW games and I form by pike and shot battalia as three units: two of shot and one of pike.

Hope that helps?

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Charge The Guns.

[SteveT]

So you are playing Small = frontage of half a large.

I was thinking Small should be half a regular. Otherwise if  two smalls contact a regular on the same flank, wouldn’t they end up looking a bit odd? Or does it not matter?

Taking it to silly extremes, if you had a great big line of regular size units and a long line of small units, then these proportions would matter.

Not even played the game yet but was stumped at the basing stage.

 

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by SteveT.

[Charge The Guns]

The game assumes both sides have mostly regular sized units. Typically units fighting each other, to their fronts, fight one on one, with other friends being classed as ‘supports’. Small or large units should be uncommon, and so the theoretical issue you point out should not occur.

The rules were written to allow flexibility in basing assuming that many people picking up the rules had existing collections, and wanting to be flexible. This has caused a lot of confusion for people over the years, so don’t worry, you are not the only one to become confused at this point. The key thing is to decide on the frontage for a regular sized unit, and use this for both forces.

Most people starting from scratch use a frontage of 20mm for an infantry figure and 25mm for a mounted figure. They then decide how big they want their units. i.e. if they want their regular sized foot units to be 6 figures wide, then regular sized units need to be 120mm (or thereabouts) wide. It doesn’t really matter if they are a bit ‘out’ compared to the enemy, as the rules assume one unit normally fights against one unit frontally. (Strictly speaking if one large unit did happen to met two small units then the two small would fight the one large frontally. This is a fairly rare occurrence though.)

The best advice I can suggest is to agree with who you expect to be your regular opponent what you both think will look best, and then stick to the same frontage for regular sized units.

Which armies are you thinking of starting with?

[SteveT]

I see. Thank you.

Would be doing ECWs.

[Charge The Guns]

For ECW then most of your foot will be pike and shot. I’m afraid another decision stands before you (part of Pike Shotte’s flexibility). You will need to decide whether to field your foot formations of pike and shot either each as a single unit, or as three separate units, two shot and one pike. (This needs to be the same for both sides in a game.)

Some people prefer the combined in a single unit option. This certainly speeds up larger games with lots of foot units. I’d suggest for this option you have a regular sized unit of 16 shot and 8 pike, so a total of 24 figures in a unit. You would form this 12 figures wide, with 8 shot in two ranks on one side, 8 pike in two ranks in the middle, and the remaining 8 shot in two ranks on the other side. Add officers, musicians and ensigns with flags to taste! (Following this pattern a large formation would be a total of 32 figures, 16 wide in two ranks, and a small unit 16 figures, 8 wide in two ranks.)

If you want to field pike and shot as separate units, and this is my preference, then I’d suggest a regular unit is 12 figures, 6 figures wide in two ranks. Have two of these of shot, and one of these of pike, and the three units would make up one foot formation, but fight as three separate units in the game. (In this system 16 figures, 8 wide in two ranks, makes a large unit. 8 figures, 4 wide in two ranks, makes a small unit.)

You should try and make your cavalry units match the width of which ever foot option you have chosen.

Hope this helps you decide how to form up your figures.

[SteveT]

Thank you very much. I was in fact just facing this decision when I read your message.

I think the way forward for us, due to the lack of a gargantuan table, is to reduce all distances by 30%. Including unit frontages then.

12 men does seem about right then. (6 wide x 2 deep)    (actually 3 bases of 2 x 2 men)

Then I thought what about pikes.  They are supposed to be deeper. Shouldn’t they be of similar width as muskets too? Needs more figures to achieve that.

And even then the hedgehog formation; it would need an even number of bases, 1 per corner, wouldn’t it?

Tricky.

 

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by SteveT.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by SteveT.

[Charge The Guns]

The ECW armies would have formed their pike and muskets up in the same depth, which was probably just 6 ranks deep. The depth of formations had thinned during the experience of the Thirty Years War on the continent. So strictly speaking your pike and musket should be the same depth. However, I actually have my pikes in three ranks of 6 figures. This is partly as I have officers, a musician and two ensigns with colours (flags) in the pike block. With just 7 pikemen left to fill out the 12 it looked a bit weedy to me. I therefore justified the slightly deeper formation by saying it included the colour parties etc. and had 18 figures, 13 pikes and 5 officers etc. Secondly, I also like the pikes to look a chunkier formation even though I know it’s probably not right!

If I was starting again I might have 12 pikemen in 2 ranks as the unit, and then make a vignette stand that could stand at the front of the the unit with the colours etc. This would make swapping colours for different regiments or armies easier.

Either approach is fine. Probably the key thing is having the frontage (pretty much) the same for regular sized units, whether pike or shot.

[Charge The Guns]

Oh yes, hedgehogs. I just form the muskets on the flanks of the pike block. It is difficult to make it look ‘pretty’. As hedgehogs don’t get formed too often in our games, we’ve been able to live with it.

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