Rules Queries

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  • #151965
    Huw PY
    Participant

    Morning all!

    My little group and I have got some queries and were hoping we could find some help….

    1) when firing does each “gun” shoot separately or do all guns of the same type count as one system – mainly this refers to the 2 MG found on the boats?
    2) can a player move 1/3, fire a gun, move another 1/3 then fire a different gun or must all firing be done at the same time?
    3) which non RN vessels are shallow draft?
    4) accidental collisions – do both sides get to skill test to avoid?
    5) can all critical hits be repaired – number 5 for example?
    6) is there a way to work out hull points when converting ships not given in the rule book?
    7) given that a lot of these actions took place at night should there be spotting rules, and if so where are they? Seems odd that there are rules for sea conditions but not night.
    8) mine damage and chances of being hit?
    9) aircraft… the rules say that when the aircraft needs to appear the player uses one of his order dice, what then happens to the boat which can then not be activated and to its torpedoes if any?
    10) do aircraft carry any weapons other than bombs or torpedoes? Thinking the beaufighter mainly.
    11) presume you would need to add the skill of the aircraft on to the basic cost to use in a game?

    Apologies for length of post.
    Huw

    #151966
    Mike Collington
    Participant

    Interested in all these ppinys too, particularly
    Cannons on the Beaufighter.

    #152055
    elcee
    Participant

    “3) which non RN vessels are shallow draft?”

    The terrain rules on page 45 mention, that the skill test bonus applies to all medium or smaller ships.

    Thats at least what i read about shallow draft…

    “10) do aircraft carry any weapons other than bombs or torpedoes? Thinking the beaufighter mainly.”

    No, the profile is simplified. Its specifically states that only 2 profiles are assigned to aircraft, bombs or torpedoes (Page 56, Aircraft weapons).
    Though i think all planes should be armed with bombs profile and certain planes should have the option to upgrade to carry a torpedo (like the Beaufighter).

    #152106
    Huw PY
    Participant

    Hi Lars

    There is also a reference in the torpedo rules which implies that barges can immune, and the RN LCT(A) which is large is specified as such, but what about F-Lighters? I am guessing that they are too…but would like some confirmation!

    Agree re the planes – “bomb” could include a variety of weaponry after all. But do Torpedo armed planes get these as well as their torpedo? Page 56 seems to imply that you add the torpedo on, but it could do with clarification.

    #152154
    Bill McGill
    Participant

    I can’t think of any WW2 aircraft that could carry significant bombs at the same time as torpedoes, although many were capable of carrying either at different times.

    #152156
    William Sheil
    Participant

    Here are my takes on these questions:

    1) The rules refer to firing at a different enemy for each “guns” for hit allocations so I assume they can be allocated separately.

    2) I would say “yes” they can shoot in different phases as the rules make a point of specifying that each can fire once “per activation” as if that’s the main restriction. However this could require some fore-planning as you have to declare all targets before firing the first weapons.

    3) As mentioned tiny, small and medium craft are immune to torpedoes (unless players agree) and get bonuses for torpedoes and crossing shoals and sandbanks.

    4) It looks like collisions aren’t dodged but intentional ramming can be (by the defender)… but I would probably argue that the defender (only) should also get the chance to dodge an ostensibly accidental collision.

    5) Yes, I think so. Some crit efefts also self-repair e.g. Crew.

    6) I think Hull points will need to be extrapolated for undocumented vessels.

    7) Rules certainly seem to be deficient in this area. We have star shells, searchlights and radars rules telling us how far we can see at night when we have these items but nothing telling us how far we can see without them. Maybe just say 30cm but a ship that fired in its last activation can be seen/targeted at 60cm with everything obscured unless under a star shell or searchlight?

    8) Mine damage is listed in the text but the hit chance chart is AWOL. See my own thread for further questions here.

    9) The rules say “A Fleet Dice”, not one of the dice from the bag, so like a boat you keep an extra dice on hand for the plane and then introduce it to note activation when the aircraft arrives. Thereafter it goes in the bag with the others. I expect this is the same as any units arriving from off the table. The “Pulling and Issuing Fleet Dice” section on p8 specifically talks about putting dice for the vessels “in play” into the bag. Off-table aircraft and reserves are not yet “in play” at the start of the game so their dice do not start in the bag. Planes arrive and are activated at the start of the turn.

    10) I think “bombs” are generally a simplification for non-torpedo aircraft attacks so for beaufighters they represent the aircraft strafing with cannons .

    11) I would expect so. I cannot see what column they would use but I assume it would be the Tiny, Small and Medium ship column in the table on p93.

    #152180
    elcee
    Participant

    As a side note, i think its quite funny that the Beaufighter Model carries bombs and no torpedo…

    #152213
    Bill McGill
    Participant

    I don’t see why. The bomb load was probably more common that the torpedo. I don’t think the torpedo was even an option to start with.

    #152215
    William Sheil
    Participant

    The original Beaufighter I think was intended as a pure cannon platform and as a maritime craft they were often tasked with suppressing Flak in support of torpedo/bomb attackers. Later variants reintroduced torpedoes (previously one of the roles of the Beaufort predecessor) and rockets. Coastal command used the cannon and torpedo variants in combination to some effect.

    #152242
    John Stallard
    Moderator

    Hi fellas..yes you can fire each gun position separately and yes you can move and fire interrupting movement if you wish with fire as the guns acquire a target. F lighters and Siebel ferries are too shallow to torpedo if they are being used as escorts, I would class them as torpedable(!)if they are stuffed with fuel for Rommel or packed with AFVs for Sealion etc…

    Aircraft…. we decided to cut down on aircraft as the games is about boats really…We decided to just give each nation a plane that could bomb small ships in a cheery fashion..otherwise Italian, German Japanese players would , rightly, be moaning about devastating Mitchell bombers with 14 heavy MGs and a 57mm cannon and bombs, or a fully loaded beaufighter with rockets cannons mgs and torpedoes

    as ever please feel free to add or subtract whatever you wish, its a play set to get you started, add away fellas, that’s all part of the fun!!

    cheers john s

    #152384
    Zloy Krolik
    Participant

    Thanks mate, I will.

    Any thoughts on informing this forum with some of the design decisions that went into this game? I’d be interested in hearing them.

    #152386
    Mike Collington
    Participant

    John Stallard comented above about Aircraft, i agree with his thinking especially since most of the coastal actions where night fights where aircraft played a limited role.

    #155881
    Colonel
    Participant

    According to Wikipedia, the Draft of the F-Lighter when loaded was 1.4 meters. The draft of an E-Boat is 1.47 meters. Would imply, based on the Torpedo Rules on page 12 of the rule book, that the F-Lighter Large Barge would be Immune to torpedoes.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Colonel.
    #155883
    Bill McGill
    Participant

    It would depend on how heavily the barge was loaded. And eventually the allies started using torpedoes with fuses that would detonate as they ran under the barge.

    #155884
    Michael Davis
    Participant

    Interestingly, the F-lighter’s listed as Medium under Ship Sizing (p23), but Large on the Ship Roster (p95).

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