[Kar98k]

Following Steiner’s (@spartan18a) lead, I was curious what ChatGPT (AI) had to say, so for fun, I asked it this Question:

If I were to write a WW2 skirmish rule set for tabletop miniature gaming were one figure is equal to one soldier and one vehicle model is one half-track, should the SdKfz 251/9 Stummel be given a transport ability to carry soldiers into battle? And if so, how many can it transport?

Here’s the response I got:

Historically, the Stummel was built on the Sd.Kfz. 251 chassis and retained the basic fighting compartment, but the 7.5 cm gun and its ammunition consumed substantial internal space. Its crew was generally 3–4 men, depending on variant/source. The ordinary 251 was designed to carry a Panzergrenadier squad, whereas the 251/9 was primarily an infantry-support weapon rather than a troop carrier.

My recommendation:

For a one-figure-per-soldier skirmish game, I’d stat it as:

Sd.Kfz. 251/9 Stummel

Crew: 3–4
Transport: 6 infantry
Armament: 7.5 cm L/24 + MGs
Role: Infantry support / assault transport

Why 6?

A standard 251/1 could carry roughly a full infantry squad, but the Stummel’s gun installation, ammunition racks, and crew take up room that would otherwise be occupied by infantry. Six passengers gives you a meaningful transport capability without turning the Stummel into a normal APC.

Interestingly, Bolt Action actually gives the 251/9 a capacity of 8 men, despite acknowledging that it was primarily an infantry-support vehicle. That is a useful precedent, but I’d regard 8 as the game-friendly upper limit rather than necessarily the best historical abstraction.

There is also some evidence of disagreement over exactly how much usable passenger space remained: discussion around the Bolt Action model notes that the vehicle could physically accommodate several passengers, while other versions/configurations have little practical room once the crew and gun equipment are accounted for.

An even better solution for your rules

If you’re aiming for historical flavor without excessive restrictions, I’d use:

Vehicle Transport capacity
Sd.Kfz. 251/1 10–12
Sd.Kfz. 251/9 Stummel 6
Sd.Kfz. 251/10 8
Sd.Kfz. 251/22 0–4
Sd.Kfz. 251/21 0–4

The important distinction is that “transport capacity” doesn’t necessarily mean the vehicle’s intended tactical role was transporting those troops. A Stummel could carry a handful of accompanying Panzergrenadiers, ammunition bearers, assault troops, etc., while its primary job remained providing direct-fire support.

For a skirmish game, 6 is probably the sweet spot: enough to make the Stummel useful as an infantry-support vehicle that can bring a small assault element forward, but not enough to replace the 251/1.

If you want to be particularly faithful to the historical vehicle while still keeping the game playable, I’d actually consider 6 passengers + 1 dedicated ammunition bearer/loader who can count as crew as a special rule. That would make the Stummel feel distinctly different from a normal Hanomag.

(End of ChatGPT)

Interesting response that is clearly scraped from net (reason for a lot of AI slop), but there’s a point to be taken here. Should tabletop miniature games be designed to be 100% historical/restrictive, or should be a bit more relaxed for entertainment purposes? I found it interesting it listed the Sdkfz 251/22 (transport of 0-4), but no 251 Stuka Zu Fuss, so I followed up with this question, What about the sdkfz 251 Stuka Zu Fuss? and here is the response:

The Sd.Kfz. 251 with Wurfrahmen 40 (“Stuka zu Fuß”) is actually a much easier case than the Stummel.

The important point is that the Wurfrahmen was essentially an add-on rocket system mounted to a normal Sd.Kfz. 251/1. The standard 251/1 could carry up to 10 infantrymen, and the Wurfrahmen installation consisted of six rocket boxes—three per side—rather than replacing the vehicle’s entire fighting compartment.

So for your 1 miniature = 1 soldier rules, I’d recommend:

Sd.Kfz. 251/1 Wurfrahmen 40

Transport: 10 infantry

I wouldn’t reduce its transport capacity merely because it has the rockets.

The distinction I’d make is:

251/1: 10 passengers
251/1 Wurfrahmen 40: 10 passengers
251/9 Stummel: ~6 passengers
Other heavily modified 251 variants: capacity reduced according to how much internal space their equipment occupies.

The Wurfrahmen rockets were carried externally in six wooden/metal launch boxes, so they don’t consume the same sort of internal space that the Stummel’s 7.5 cm gun installation and ammunition do. The vehicle could therefore still function fundamentally as a Panzergrenadier carrier with a rocket-support capability.

But there’s an interesting rules opportunity

I’d give the Stuka zu Fuß a rule such as:

Wurfrahmen 40: The vehicle must halt and its crew dismount/operate the launchers to fire. It cannot fire its rockets while moving.

That’s much more historically meaningful than reducing its passenger capacity. Contemporary/model documentation describes the Wurfrahmen as a system where the vehicle was aimed at the target and the rockets were fired from the external launch frames; the crew could remain protected in the fighting compartment until preparing to fire.

For a skirmish game, I’d therefore make the Stuka zu Fuß essentially a normal 251/1 with 10-man transport capacity plus a powerful but limited rocket-artillery weapon.

If you’re building a complete vehicle roster, I’d be inclined to establish a standardized transport-capacity system for all the Sd.Kfz. 251 variants, because there are some fascinating cases where the historical crew/equipment arrangements make the obvious numbers surprisingly different.

(End of ChatGPT)

• This reply was modified 4 hours, 18 minutes ago by Kar98k.

[Kar98k]

Note that snipers and spotters have the Infiltrator special rule.

New players sometimes forget the additional +1 to cover saves. Provided it is not advancing or running (from an order die).

[Kar98k]

I built mine with the bench seats to emphasize its role as a transport vehicle in my army list (which I’ve since removed, since they nerfed it in the errata), but the vehicle can be built with space for them.

@Kepler: Please elaborate. Why you think they nerfed it in the errata? For the newest errata, it only says to change this:

PAGE 74. Sd.kfz 250/8 Stummel & 251/9 Stummelhalf-track
REPLACE the second option (adding a pintle-mounted forwardfacing MMG) with the following:
– May add a co-axial MMG to the howitzer for +5pts.

Which of course makes sense since it wasn’t a pintle-mount in the first place.

[Kar98k]

“It does come with bench seats, and I was able to assemble it with the four passenger models it came with plus the loader standing in the aisle.” “…the model could fit 8 passengers just as well as the stock Hanomags would be able to carry 12.”

Interesting, and I have to ask. What model do you have? My model (see pic below) can just fit the crew, and there are no bench seats for passengers. Anyway, using the above reasoning, I guess the SD.KFZ 251 STUKA ZU FUSS (AoG3E, page 76) needs to have the “Transport: Up to 12 men” added to its stats.

That tubular steel framework, which held the six launching troughs, was designed to be easily fitted and removed from a standard 251 half-track. Even with the framework fitted, the bench seats remain with room to “Transport: Up to 12 men” just like a normal 251/1. I’m just saying, if the 251/9 can carry up to 8, why can’t the 251 Stuka carry up to 12?

But Kepler is correct, without that transport tag, the 251/9 and the 250/8 (Stummels) are both the same thing in Bolt Action, so could have been grouped together as one listing – two different vehicles with the same stats. After all, both vehicles were used for the same purpose.

• This reply was modified 5 days, 16 hours ago by Kar98k.

[Kar98k]

But the simple fact remains. The SdKfz 251/9 Stummel was only used for close support and not designed to carry passengers.

[Kar98k]

I was never fond of prone figures, but I think this was because of a bad childhood experience. When I was a kid, I bought multiple boxes of Airfix American Civil War figures. In fact, I bought all the boxes the hobby store had at the time, which were, if I can remember correctly, two boxes of Union infantry, three boxes Confederate infantry, and two boxes of Artillery – yes, even as a kid I was a figure fanatic. (see pics below for those that don’t know or would like a blast from the past)

Anyway, the first box I opened was the Artillery (of course), but then the Union and Confederate infantry. I noticed that only the Union infantry came with prone figures. In fact, ten out of forty-eight are prone, so about 20% of the box has prone figures. Now, this didn’t mean much at first, but later I found Airfix Guide #24: American Civil War Wargaming, and what a fantastic and useful book! However, that’s when I realized I needed more boxes of Airfix figures. Lots more, but unfortunately, because of all those darn prone figures, even more boxes of Union infantry. In the end, I had a big bag of prone Union infantry figures which had little use. Yes, I did try to make casualties.

Because of that, I think that is why I’m not keen about prone figures for tabletop miniature gaming. That being said, your figures look very good. In fact, I like what you did to make your prone Bren Gun team. I’m actually very tempted to do the same thing. That’s what I already did with some of the prone figures we get with the plastic US Airborne and Soviet Infantry box sets – the first sets that were released because you don’t get prone figures in the newer sets (Hmm, I wonder why?). The prone figures were used to make LMG teams, and for the Soviets, AT-Rifle teams, but you only need so many, so I try to find other uses for prone figures like snipers, forward observers, and what not.

  

[Kar98k]

First, the background story: A long time ago I picked up a couple of Rubicon Models Pak 40 (1:56 scale) plastic model kits because frankly I didn’t want the metal Pak 40. Rubicon Models also released the Pak 36 AT Gun, the Pak 38 (Pak 97/38) AT Gun, Flak 36/37 (88), Flak 38, and others. All in plastic. Just recently I picked up a couple of the new plastic Pak 40 kits by Warlord Games. The Rubicon Models kit is a completely different plastic kit than the Warlord Games plastic kit, and before anyone asks, I do not have a preference (or recommendation) as to which one is better. Either one will make for an excellent model for the gaming table, and they are ten times, no wait… twenty times better than the metal Pak 40.

Also, before someone asks, “Why did you buy more Pak 40 kits?”, well, the short answer is that I missed my Miniature-Maniac-Addiction-Anonymous meeting.

That’s good and all, but what about the 28mm figures? The Rubicon Models kit gives you six crew figures while the Warlord kit gives you four crew figures. These are 28mm figures*, but the Rubicon Models figures are much more anatomically correct while the Warlord figures are definitely heroic scaled. That being said, Warlord was forced to do this so the figs would be more compatible with their later plastic infantry sets. As for the two different AT Gun models themselves, well, after you assemble and paint them, they look identical on the gaming table, so the gamer is good to go for either one, and I highly recommend either one instead of the metal Pak 40.

Now I do not have the new soon to be released US 57mm anti-tank gun (plastic) and British 6-pounder anti-tank gun (plastic) kits, but if the Pak 40 is any indication, they are going to be a must have for anyone wanting to avoid the metal guns. Hmm… I wonder what is next, a Soviet AT gun?

*but isn’t 28mm figs related to the scale-creep of 25mm figs?

• This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by Kar98k.
• This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by Kar98k.

[Kar98k]

Hopefully a quick question. Do the Army Special Rules in the “Armies of” supplements supersede those in the Main Rule Book or are they additional?

Hopefully a quick answer 🙂

It is either one or the other, but not both

Now for a longer response 😉

You and your opponent must decide whether to use the “Army Lists” and their special rules from either the Bolt Action 3E rule book, or the “Armies of…” books. Not both at the same time.

Also note that it’s not just the army special rules that might be different, but some of the units themselves. There are several to note, but here is an easy one; if you look at the American MMG team, you will see a difference. In the Bolt Action rule book (in the Army Lists), the MMG team has an “Extra Selection (MMG only)” special rule, but you do not get this option in the “Armies of the United States” book.

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by Kar98k.

[Kar98k]

That’s why the Fallschirmjager FG42 is an automatic rifle and NOT an assault rifle.

@L.T. Russell: Yes, and many Bolt Action gamers agree with you. Now, if only Warlord Games can get it correct.

Also, for more details see (click the link below):

The FG42 in Bolt Action, and how easy it is to fix the error.

It is clear as daylight that the FG42 is an automatic rifle, no doubt, and as you can read from the above, this is very easy to fix in the game. Hint. hint, Warlord Games (wink).

As for the Bren, I have to agree with Stuart Harrison’s comment. In Bolt Action, the “Automatic Rifle” is a category intended to cover weapons like the one-man FG42 automatic rifle used by the Germans, and the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) used by American infantry squads. However, if you use historical doctrine, the Bren Light Machine Gun (note the name) is typically crewed by two (gunner and loader), and this gave it a much higher rate of fire than the BAR or FG42, so in Bolt Action game terms, it would better fit into the LMG category.

Note: The Bren does not have a single, universal, full name, but it does have a few official designations. Officially it is categorized as a light machine gun (LMG), and the official British service name (in British Armed Forces) is the “Gun, Machine, Bren”, or “Bren Machine Gun”. There are a few good books about this weapon, and I recommend Neil Grant’s book “Bren Gun” by Osprey Publishing.

Gaming note: there is a very good argument for the Bren being used without an assistant, and history does support special cases where the Bren Gun was operated by a single person (no assistant). So if my opponent asked if they could use their Bren Guns as such, I would be okay with that, and in game terms, this would be easy. It would be temporary categorized as an Automatic Rifle with the same ROF and Points Cost as the FG42 and BAR.

 

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by Kar98k.

[Kar98k]

@Stuart Harrison: Just to confirm, you are saying “Yes” to Jeff Knez’s question? Which was:

“Let’s say I have a Inexperienced transport that has a MMG for a weapon (a German SdKfz 251/1 halftrack for example). When it shoots, it incurs a -1
To Hit penalty due to being inexperienced. Got it.

Now let’s say I have a Veteran infantry squad riding in the transport. Can it shoot the MMG instead so that it doesn’t incur the -1 to Hit penalty?”

I’m not so sure the answer is “Yes”, and here is why: 1) The transport’s MG (MMG or HMG) is fired by the Inexperienced crew and not by the passengers – I will explain. 2) If the transport had additional MGs (usually MMGs), they could be fired by the passengers. However the original question by Jeff Knez was, “I have a Inexperienced transport that has a[sic] MMG for a weapon”, implying the transport has only one MG with no additional MGs added. According to the rules as written, “first declare which weapon is operated by the crew and which are operated by the passengers.” (see page 146). Granted, it would have been a whole lot more clear had it said, “first declare which weapon is operated by the crew and then which are operated by the passengers.”, which is what I think they meant.

[Kar98k]

@Kar98k – that would be a house rule.

@Stuart Harrison and @Jeff Knez (answer to your question)

Stuart, yes, you are correct. This was a common house rule for earlier editions (which still intermingles with long-timers), but in Bolt Action: Third Edition, it is no longer a house rule. It is included as a rule. This is on page 146 under Weapons Mounted on Transports. You are correct in that passengers can fire the other weapons (if there is more than one), however, “If either the vehicle crew or the passengers are Inexperienced, or have pin markers, their shots suffer the normal penalties.”

[Kar98k]

Now let’s say I have a Veteran infantry squad riding in the transport. Can it shoot the MMG instead so that it doesn’t incur the -1 to Hit penalty?

To discourage exploiting build points mechanics, most gaming groups I know do not allow this. If you purchased a inexperience half-track, it fires as inexperienced regardless of the passengers. Also, page 134 (VEHICLE-MOUNTED WEAPONS) supports this, “FIXED AND TEAM WEAPONS – We assume that vehicles have sufficient crew to employ whatever weapons they carry. “

[Kar98k]

is the re-crewing move for artillery units affected by terrain or always as the bird flies 12″?

Impassable terrain is still impassable, as are other terrain restrictions.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Kar98k.

[Kar98k]

Yes, what Stuart said. But remember, every time the spotter spots for a different unit, it resets the ranging-in (roll of 6).

No, if the spotter has pins, but the mortar team doesn’t have pins, the mortar team does not need to pass an order test to fire. As explained on page 102, the spotter and mortar team (or any unit with a spotter) can be thought of as two elements that share the same order die.

[Kar98k]

I just picked up the new “plastic” German heavy weapons and Pak 40 boxes. First things first, yes, they are a bit “Heroic” Scale. Its the new trend that will not die.

Now that we got that out of the way, I would like to quickly talk about the new boxed sets. They are a great match up for the German Veteran Infantry Platoon (plastic) box set. Why? Simple really, the bodies are interchangeable. In fact, two of the bodies on the crew sprue, which you get with both the heavy weapons or Pak40 packs, are exactly the same as two of the bodies on the Veteran Infantry sprue. Okay, well, they are not exactly the same. The two bodies (the kneeling poses) are pretty much exactly the same, sort of. If you look a them at a glance, they look the same, but look closer. The boots are different (which is okay). Also, on the Vet Inf body, there is a stick grenade stuck in his boot.

Regardless, you can use the Veteran Infantry bodies as crew for your heavy weapons and Pak40 and vice versa – interchangeable. For mid to late war, different boots in the same unit is okay. However, if you are concerned about the boots for early war, you can easily use the bodies from the Veteran Infantry sprue and the bits and arms from the crew sprue to make early war crew with the earlier boot.

If you have a lot of extra bits from the other German Infantry plastic boxes, there are a lot of great kit-bashing ideas you can explore.

If you do not have any Germans yet, I recommend getting the new Cross of Iron (all plastic) starter set, a German Veteran Infantry Platoon (plastic) box, and maybe one more Pak40 (the new plastic one). Between the Panzer Grenadier sprues and the Veteran Infantry sprues, you get lots of great options and combos. Yes, the boots are different, but from mid to late war, that is okay. Also, you can always keep the same boot type in the same unit if you like.

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