[Kar98k]

@Stuart Harrison: Just to confirm, you are saying “Yes” to Jeff Knez’s question? Which was:

“Let’s say I have a Inexperienced transport that has a MMG for a weapon (a German SdKfz 251/1 halftrack for example). When it shoots, it incurs a -1
To Hit penalty due to being inexperienced. Got it.

Now let’s say I have a Veteran infantry squad riding in the transport. Can it shoot the MMG instead so that it doesn’t incur the -1 to Hit penalty?”

I’m not so sure the answer is “Yes”, and here is why: 1) The transport’s MG (MMG or HMG) is fired by the Inexperienced crew and not by the passengers – I will explain. 2) If the transport had additional MGs (usually MMGs), they could be fired by the passengers. However the original question by Jeff Knez was, “I have a Inexperienced transport that has a[sic] MMG for a weapon”, implying the transport has only one MG with no additional MGs added. According to the rules as written, “first declare which weapon is operated by the crew and which are operated by the passengers.” (see page 146). Granted, it would have been a whole lot more clear had it said, “first declare which weapon is operated by the crew and then which are operated by the passengers.”, which is what I think they meant.

[Kar98k]

@Kar98k – that would be a house rule.

@Stuart Harrison and @Jeff Knez (answer to your question)

Stuart, yes, you are correct. This was a common house rule for earlier editions (which still intermingles with long-timers), but in Bolt Action: Third Edition, it is no longer a house rule. It is included as a rule. This is on page 146 under Weapons Mounted on Transports. You are correct in that passengers can fire the other weapons (if there is more than one), however, “If either the vehicle crew or the passengers are Inexperienced, or have pin markers, their shots suffer the normal penalties.”

[Kar98k]

Now let’s say I have a Veteran infantry squad riding in the transport. Can it shoot the MMG instead so that it doesn’t incur the -1 to Hit penalty?

To discourage exploiting build points mechanics, most gaming groups I know do not allow this. If you purchased a inexperience half-track, it fires as inexperienced regardless of the passengers. Also, page 134 (VEHICLE-MOUNTED WEAPONS) supports this, “FIXED AND TEAM WEAPONS – We assume that vehicles have sufficient crew to employ whatever weapons they carry. “

[Kar98k]

is the re-crewing move for artillery units affected by terrain or always as the bird flies 12″?

Impassable terrain is still impassable, as are other terrain restrictions.

• This reply was modified 4 days, 22 hours ago by Kar98k.

[Kar98k]

Yes, what Stuart said. But remember, every time the spotter spots for a different unit, it resets the ranging-in (roll of 6).

No, if the spotter has pins, but the mortar team doesn’t have pins, the mortar team does not need to pass an order test to fire. As explained on page 102, the spotter and mortar team (or any unit with a spotter) can be thought of as two elements that share the same order die.

[Kar98k]

I just picked up the new “plastic” German heavy weapons and Pak 40 boxes. First things first, yes, they are a bit “Heroic” Scale. Its the new trend that will not die.

Now that we got that out of the way, I would like to quickly talk about the new boxed sets. They are a great match up for the German Veteran Infantry Platoon (plastic) box set. Why? Simple really, the bodies are interchangeable. In fact, two of the bodies on the crew sprue, which you get with both the heavy weapons or Pak40 packs, are exactly the same as two of the bodies on the Veteran Infantry sprue. Okay, well, they are not exactly the same. The two bodies (the kneeling poses) are pretty much exactly the same, sort of. If you look a them at a glance, they look the same, but look closer. The boots are different (which is okay). Also, on the Vet Inf body, there is a stick grenade stuck in his boot.

Regardless, you can use the Veteran Infantry bodies as crew for your heavy weapons and Pak40 and vice versa – interchangeable. For mid to late war, different boots in the same unit is okay. However, if you are concerned about the boots for early war, you can easily use the bodies from the Veteran Infantry sprue and the bits and arms from the crew sprue to make early war crew with the earlier boot.

If you have a lot of extra bits from the other German Infantry plastic boxes, there are a lot of great kit-bashing ideas you can explore.

If you do not have any Germans yet, I recommend getting the new Cross of Iron (all plastic) starter set, a German Veteran Infantry Platoon (plastic) box, and maybe one more Pak40 (the new plastic one). Between the Panzer Grenadier sprues and the Veteran Infantry sprues, you get lots of great options and combos. Yes, the boots are different, but from mid to late war, that is okay. Also, you can always keep the same boot type in the same unit if you like.

[Kar98k]

Hi Greg. You can find your answer and much more on page 102 of the rules (Spotters). “If an indirect fire weapon is fired by a Veteran or Regular crew, the crew are assumed to be able to also see whatever any spotter (or forward observer) in your force can see.” And yes, indirect fire weapons with inexperienced crews cannot use spotters or forward observers.

Note: because it is in the Errata & FAQS, some people forget or don’t know yet, but if a crew changes spotters, it resets the ranging-in process. That is, a six is needed to hit. Also, a spotter can only spot for a single indirect fire weapon per game turn.

[Kar98k]

And I was wondering if anyone else could think of any other French Vehicles that should be included.

Not easy to answer this because we are not sure what will already be included in the new book.

For sure, the basic vehicles, and maybe some of the more obscure ones, but unless they release a preview list, we will not know for sure what will be included until the book is released.

@Warlord – would it possible to see a list of the vehicles that will be included?

[Kar98k]

P131, Vehicles, introduction, second para, last two sentences – “Before looking at the role of vehicles in depth, we will…

Okay, thanks Stuart, that’s helpful. Yep, “In all other respects the rules for vehicles and infantry are the same.” But in my book, this is on page 130  😉

Overall, that helps keep things simple and easy, and even though tanks don’t have “hand grenades”, at point-blank range, the muzzle blast might count for something.

• This reply was modified 2 months ago by Kar98k.

[Kar98k]

Do tanks also get the +2 point-blank range modifier to hit if a tank shoots at an infantry or artillery unit?

This might seem simple to answer, but please keep reading.

I only ask because 1) we have “Shooting at Vehicles” rules (p.137)* but no “Shooting at Infantry” rules, and 2) under “Roll to Hit” (p.83) the point-blank heading says “Also know as Hand Grenade Range”. So, given these two interesting points, a reasonable person might wonder if the point-blank modifier does not apply to tanks shooting at infantry. What do you think?

*this states, “This works as normal”, so yes, add point-blank, but the heading is “Shooting at Vehicles” and not Infantry.

• This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by Kar98k.

[Kar98k]

Hi again you said you introduced your own simple rules what are they?

Our smoke rules are nothing fancy, but we did a bit of research to make sure certain vehicles or units could produce smoke. Surprisingly, a lot of tanks can produce some sort of smoke for cover. Even if it was some sort of smoke canister installed on the back of the tank. Interestingly, we discovered that the Soviets didn’t seem to use a lot of smoke devices on their tanks.

Anyway, my friend typed all this up, so I can post here, but like I said, they are nothing fancy. Also, we are still tweaking for a balance of historical flavor and game-play. Basically, a unit uses a Fire or Advance order to make smoke. We are tweaking the idea of popping smoke as a combined action. That is to say, a unit can make smoke and then move (e.g. back up into it) or use Advance order to do a combination of move, shoot, smoke as practiced by some armies in WW2. That is to say, a Tiger would fire its main gun, then pop smoke using its smoke projectors (must use Advance order and counts as moving for shooting), or even a Panzer III would use its main gun, pop smoke (canisters mounted in the rear) and back-up into the smoke (again, must use Advance and counts as moving for shooting)

Oh, smoke depends on what is producing it. Usually one or more 2″ or 3″ puffs – a Tiger I using its smoke projectors puts out two 2″ puffs side-by-side in front of the tank whereas an infantry unit might place one or more 2″ puffs next to it (front, flank, rear). All other smoke rules can be found on page 128 in the BA3E rule book.

Oh, I almost forgot. When firing a howitzer (never mortars) directly (has direct LOS), or when firing a smoke round from a main gun (88mm on a Tiger I, 75mm Pak40, or 75mm or 76mm gun from a Sherman – like in the movie Fury), the shooting player picks a point of aim and rolls to hit as normal (4+ with modifiers). If miss, nothing happens (KISS – Keep it Simple and Straightforward), but if hit, place a 3″ puff at point of aim.

[Kar98k]

Does the Brandenburger squad have to be actually on the table for ” Sabotage” rule to work?? If they are off table as reserves but included in a German force?

Unless there is something new in the errata we have missed, we have always played that the unit must be in play for their Sabotage special rule to influence the enemy. This of course makes sense because they can’t do much influencing if they are not in the fight yet.

Quick answer is that the unit must actually be on the tabletop for their Sabotage to kick-in.

• This reply was modified 3 months ago by Kar98k.

[Kar98k]

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/3627934/badd

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/3628019/badd

We’ve played a few games now using this little gem, and for games where both players create a point-based force of 1,000 to 1,500 points, it works surprisingly well. It really does take care of things like that silly ‘Going Down’ dice game, and of course, the “No more hiding your overpowered until the end of the round. No more BS. Play it or lose it.” You can of course push the limits and try to hold back a specific unit for as long as you can, but you risk having the unit do nothing for the turn – What? You had an order for us? Well, we didn’t receive it.

However, there is one thing that should be implemented. If there is a first wave (see Meeting Engagement, page 170), it is best not to use this gem of an idea for the first turn of the game. It should only start on the second turn of the game. Then the fun+tension builds. The pulling of order dice adds an element of fog-of-war, this gem of an idea takes it to another level.

Orders Phase – Random Ending
Insert into the bag a single Bolt Action die that is of a different color from all the others. When this die is pulled a predetermined number of times (usually 2, 3, or 4), it can be used to trigger the end of the Orders Phase (no more drawing dice from the bag). For example, if the players all agree that the predetermined number is three, then the first and second time this Bolt Action die is pulled, it is noted and returned to the bag, but when pulled a third time, the Orders Phase suddenly ends. This can create unexpected surprises as well as add a bit of fog of war to your games. This also adds a nice surprise on how a Bolt Action game should be played. There is no more fooling about and no more cheeky attempts to hold back a unit until the end of the Orders Phase, but more importantly, there is this added suspense of “Play it or lose it.”

[Kar98k]

The solution would be to have Cover Saves in Direct HE and maybe even in Indirect HE. IMHO, the cover save should be higher than hard cover, maybe a +3 (to simulate the extra protection rule).

What do you guys think?

If you ask me, and you did (insert wink here), I think the EXTRA PROTECTION rule from Second Edition (see page 124) is the most simple and easiest method. Also, unless you change the rules, there is no cover saves: “When hit by HE, units inside a building receive no cover saves at all, even if the unit is DOWN, though the number of hits suffered  is halved…” (page 156, BA3E)

[Kar98k]

After many games now, I really miss the extra protection rule. Buildings are now even worse than ruins, and especially if you are fired with a HE round

I too miss the extra protection rule for the same reasons. However, because of a simple oversight or maybe because the shooting mechanic was changed (roll to hit, roll to damage, and now roll to save), Third Edition designers probably worried that buildings might be too strong. However, I disagree because buildings are still HE magnets.

Your gaming group should try using the EXTRA PROTECTION rule from Second Edition (see page 124) and determine if it is right for you. If everyone in my group agrees, we tend to use the EXTRA PROTECTION rule for our Third Edition games.

EXTRA PROTECTION: When targeting infantry or artillery units that are inside a building, the die roll an enemy requires to score damage for a hit is increased by +1. This means that inexperienced troops are damaged on a 4+, regulars on 5+, and veterans on 6+. This die roll is modified by the penetration value of the weapon in the usual way. The rule has no effect in close quarters or against hits from HE and flamethrowers.

If you use EXTRA PROTECTION, yes, buildings (if hard cover) would be very good places for infantry units to hang out if there is no HE lurking about. Let’s say you have a squad of ten men (with 1xLMG, 2xSMG, and 7xRifles) shooting at a veteran infantry unit in a building. You will get to roll fifteen dice needing 4+ to hit (provided you have no pins or did not move). Now, the target reacts and goes DOWN. You roll your dice to hit, then you roll to damage (needing 6+ because of EXTRA PROTECTION), and then the defending unit rolls for cover saves (needing 2+ because DOWN in hard cover). However, if at point-blank range (a.k.a hand grenade range), the +2 modifier for DOWN is completely negated.

To me, this seems reasonable, so I hope that they officially re-implement EXTRA PROTECTION sooner than later. Until then, players (if all are in agreement) can simply carry over the EXTRA PROTECTION rule from the First and Second editions of the game.

• This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Kar98k.

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