Map size in Glory Hallelujah

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  • #185195
    Jim Thompson
    Participant

    What are the map sizes in the Glory Hallelujah supplement?

    Thanks

    Jim

     

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    #185197
    Garry Wills
    Participant

    Frustrating isn’t it! I believe they vary in size, one of the maps is easy to size as 6 feet across by 9 feet, others are clearly smaller. The best bet is to scale them relative to your brigade frontages. Obviously these will be different depending n whether you game with 28 mm or 15mm figures.

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    #185199
    Dr Dave
    Participant

    Hi there! I’m the chap wot wrote it… and yes, Garry has it spot on.

    It’s really dependent on size of units and the brigade frontages. that was the problem from the start, with some folks having physically smaller units than others and now with the “epic” scale it’s even more fluid with potentially 100 figure regts. I hope that helps in some small way?

    +3
    #185241
    Jim Thompson
    Participant

    Thanks for the answer. But no it doesn’t help. I bought the rules and the supplement, based my figures per the rules recommendation and you’re telling me that the supplement that was written for these rules has scenarios that don’t follow the rulebook recommendations. Ok that makes sense. So yes it is frustrating.

    No.

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    #185243
    Jim Thompson
    Participant

    Well meant to end with Jim, not No. My tablet is putting its own answers down!

    Jim

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    #185245
    Garry Wills
    Participant

    To be fair, the core rules don’t use figure scales and only have implied ground scales. Many of the supplements use this flexibility to change the size of standard units from battalions to companies etc. GH is one of the best supplements so don’t be put off. Anyway using your unit sizes and the brigade compositions in the scenario will enable you to scale the battlefield.

     

    Good Luck

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    #185262
    Jim Thompson
    Participant

    Gary Willis it’s to late for that. I come to the forum and ask questions about the rules and get vague non committal answers. I would like it if someone, supplement author, anybody really to say well jim if you used the rules recommendations for the unit sizes the maps should be 9×5 if the scenario is battalions and 12×8 if brigades, but many people use non standard sized units so they adjust the map sizes to fit what they have.  I’m starting from scratch, I don’t have a base line to adjust from. So the answers I’m getting aren’t very helpful.

    Thanks for the help(not being sarcastic, really) but maybe Black Powder is not for me.

    Jim

     

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    #185263
    Nat
    Participant

    The issue is that most of warlord games are what I call ‘frame work’ systems not ‘RAW’ systems.

    What I mean by that is they are a frame work for clubs and groups to build upon/tweek to fit existing models or terrain or experience from other systems compared to say GW or Privateer Press’ RAW systems which tell you everything from unit base size to terrain measurements to dimensions of the table to use.

    So yes coming in from the cold as @Jim is doing means there’s no base line to start with.  When we (at the chelmsford bunker) started BP Napoleonics about 6 or us spent time bouncing ideas of basing /frontage numbers, numbers per base off each other until we had a group decision … part of what we factored in was terrain the club already has & the size of table we can get (when the club reopens :p).   We also have a number of us who play Bolt Action & other game systems (some long since dead :() also we have been gaming for many a year in different clubs.

     

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Nat.
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    #185271
    Dr Dave
    Participant

    Jim,

    Sorry – but you said that “it was too late for that” – I took that to mean that you weren’t interested in pursuing it any more? I’m not employed by WG – only a couple of the supplement writers are – so it sometimes takes us a few days to catch up with the forum.

    Regards,

    Dave

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    #185273
    Garry Wills
    Participant

    Since I started Napoleonic wargaming in the 1970’s I have always enjoyed the process of scenario creation and it has therefore been straightforward to adapt BP to historical scenarios. However I must say I find the ‘modern’ fad for rejecting scales as being too ’70’s’ a dishonest approach to rule writing. BP is no different to other ‘modern’ sets of rules, the ground scales are implied by weapons ranges and unit frontage. While it is true that, like GW games, you don’t need to know the scales to enjoy BP, this logic falls over when you try to apply it to historical scenarios. Jim won’t be the only gamer we have lost because the faulty ‘modern’ logic means that one of the best BP supplements gets published without any consideration of the ground represented by the scenario maps. This is not a critique of Dr Dave, but of the ‘modern’ approach to our games.

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    #185274
    Dr Dave
    Participant

    There’s no precise scale Garry because of the simple fact that when Glory Hallelujah was conceived people often used different size units to what was recommended in Black Powder 1st Edition. My own preferred scale was 15mm for ACW and for Naps it’s 28mm – but I use 36 figure units, not 24. BP2 has done away with much of this with simply stating the preferred frontage. It wasn’t a 70’s throwback to avoid a scale – just too much hassle – I’m not sure I’d call it dishonest! As you have suggested it’s actually really simple to determine the table size. If you have a brigade of 4 units, each occupying 12″ deployed in two lines – so two units “up” – then the brigade occupies a frontage of 24″ minimum – perhaps 28″ max. That then tells you how to scale off the distances. You’re spot on with weapon ranges affecting. things as well though: Some of Pickett’s regiments came under rifle fire as they crossed the Emmitsburg Road. So if rifle range has a range of 18″ then that’s the distance between those regiments and the Union line. the trick is to make sure that it matches up to the regiments frontages as well. Rest assured, in future, I will include a scale.

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    #185275
    Garry Wills
    Participant

    The dishonesty is not related to GH but to the assertion by modern rules writers that scales are not important, when they are actually intrinsic to game design.  As I said I wasn’t criticising you in particular, GH is probably my favourite supplement, it got me playing ACW.  I think that Jim has shown that what we take for granted in historical gaming, i.e. the relatively small amount work required for scenario adaptation to our collections, can be a barrier to entry into the hobby.

    All the best

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    #185457
    VinUnleaded
    Participant

    “Summer Storm” is a more accurate scenario book than both of Black Powders for Gettysburg, etc.

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