Fighting in buildings (Black Powder)

[John Ogden]

Hi,
Tonight we had a 7 years war game where the aim was to capture a particular village which was situated in the center of the board.
This was quite a large game consisting 6 or 7 brigades each side.
On move 1 a Prussian grenadier battalion got three moves and managed to enter the village, no problems so far.
A Russian battalion moved up to the walls and opened fire. This is were we started to scratch our heads.
Firstly when shooting at a building it counts as an unclear target, so your -1 on your shooting.
Second, we then realised that the grenadiers save on a 3+ and get a +2 to there save for being in a building, which means they save on a 1+.
In other words they can’t be killed by musket fire.
This seems a little illogical are we missing something the game was effectively over on move one.
Cheers
John

• This topic was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by Andy Astle.

[Scorpio Rocks]

Remember a “6” is always a success and a roll of “1” always a failure…

from p.47 of the rulebook:
“Regardless of these bonuses – a roll of a 1 will always fail a
morale save and a roll of a 6 will always pass assuming the
unit has a morale value of at least 6+ to start with.”

Yes the Prussians will be hard to winkle out of the buildings but are NOT bulletproof!

[John Ogden]

Hi,
Thanks for the reply.
I spent quite some time during the game and at home looking for the comment on p.47 and obviously missed it. It didn’t ring true to me that anyone could be impervious to musket fire, the other way of course is to use artillery which reduces the moral save by 2 if used at medium or short range.
Thanks again.
Cheers
John

[Garry Wills]

The other thing to do is to make sure the building is worthy of a +2 save addition, a wooden building is probably only worth a +1 save addition.

Regards
Garry Wills

[Big Al]

Where does the Grenadier 3+ save come from? That seems a bit high to me. Are you sure that that particular save is not down to their regular formation, like infantry in Attack Column get a 3+ save? I suspect that it is, but when in a building, it will not be in said formation and therefore will default to a 4+ save. That would make it a normal 2+ save.
The best way of dealing with units in buildings is to assault the building en masse. You will need maximum supports and try and attack it on two fronts. It isn’t easy and normally, I would ignore the building and deal with the rest of the brigade that is outside the building. The unit will become isolated and although they don’t have to retreat, they can only sit their or fall back because they will be part of a broken brigade. The other thing would be to shoot them up with artillery. Artillery causes break tests and eventually, they will fail one. On top of that, artillery will cause casualties and they will become shaken, which is helpful to an assault.
Like squares, infantry in buildings are tough, but remember that like squares, they only get one shot per facing, which makes them fairly ineffective (unless your opponent rolls lots of 6s).

[John Ogden]

Hi Al,
Gren’s save on a 3+, when throwing for saves they get +2 for the buildings which would mean they can’t be killed by musket fire. We’d forgotten that a 1 is always a fail.
As you say artillery levels the playing field with -2 on saves at short and medium ranges.
Another idea mentioned is to reduce the building bonus to +1, this makes sense as village’s in the 1800 century weren’t likely to have many brick buildings.
We have our annual big 7 years war game coming up at the Grimsby Wargames Society, six players each side. We always have a smaller game before the all day bash to iron out any unforeseen problems. Good job we did as there are 3 villages on our 18 foot main table.
Thanks everyone for the input.
Cheers
John

[Dr Dave]

The grenadier stat line – You’re playing with one of the supplements – LAoK?

[John Ogden]

Hi Dave,
Yes LAoK’s with a couple of minor changes.
Like no firing if you move more than one move.
If you fail to get your orders through you still get one move.
Lastly, you always get the option to butt out(Fall Back).
In a couple of weeks we’re fighting Minden I’m the overall commander of the French, going to have my work cut out as we have reduced the volleys to 2 dice to account for their poor quality, on the up side we do have 6 brigades.
Cheers
John

[Peter]

Al, I’d be wary of ignoring buildings altogether as they were assaulted ,often taking up large resources and and effort/time in battles . I been in games where opponents totally avoided them meaning their inclusion on the table becomes somewhat irrelevant. Then think of say about Ligny /Waterloo, where villages or just buildings were seen as having to be held/taken -salient points or valuable ground. Just my thoughts after seeing opponents either march past or take a diversion away from such areas and it just looks as if the periods realities of battle and plans from both the attacker/defenders perspectives are being put aside
Peter

[Big Al]

I understand what you’re saying, but it all depends on what your objectives for the game are. I have played in games where a unit takes up “residence” and just soaks up all your resources trying to oust them unnecessarily. Ignoring them isolates them and by concentrating on other things often forces your opponent to abandon the building voluntarily.
It all depends on the objectives you have set

[Peter]

Agreed Al

[Author]

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