Boarding

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  • #188970
    Jorge
    Participant

     

    Hello everyone. If someone could answer a question about the boarding.
    If none could disengage with the skill test, and the three activations of each ship were fought, what is the result if one lost more points but still does not fall below half its ship points or its resistance value? Does he surrender and deliver the ship to the one who boarded it and won?
    Thank you
    #188975
    Nat
    Participant

    sorry not near my Hold Fast book atm

    However – where are you getting 3 activations limit from?

    #188976
    Jorge
    Participant
    In the Black Seas rulebook, in the boarding section, it says that after the first boarding match, "the fight escalates" and if neither can disengage via a skill check, it will continue for each ship's next activation.
    It does not clarify how it is resolved, what the winner gets. He seizes the ship even if the loser is still with the points above his limits.
    #188983
    skymandr
    Participant

    I can’t find the rule you are referring to in my Black Seas rule book. What version of the book do you have? (Mine is the 3rd printing.)

    In the book I have, there is no three turn limit. The only thing that is different on different turns is that in the first turn, the activated ship gets a bonus when fighting. On page 25, under Repel Boarders/Disengage it says:

    A grappled ship, when activated, may attempt to repel boarders by performing an attack (as describe on page 24), or it may attempt to disengage from the boarding action instead.

    No mention is made of this not being an option on later turns.

    If no ship manages to disengage, the fighting continues until one ship surrenders or all crew on one ship are dead or disabled. The winning ship may then move away without a skill check, but does not otherwise win anything in particular, unless the scenario says otherwise.

    Hope this helps!

    #188985
    Nat
    Participant

    As  skymandr said….Its a case of after the initial boarding action then there are no inherant bonuses (ships equipment like Trained Marines will still apply) however you can attempt to pull away, but basically the boarding action continues until one of:
    a) one ship falls below the threshold and surrenders
    b) one ship disengages and sails away

    Neither page 24 nor 25 put a turn limit on a boarding action.

    #188986
    Jorge
    Participant

    Hello friends, thank you all. They have helped me develop my idea of how to play it.
    Page 24 (I can’t find which edition is my book in Spanish) says that “immediately after the initial confrontation, and the next activation of each confronted ship, the fight intensifies!! ” (possibly implying or accepting that it says that they are three turns, (intensifying the fight, where surely there will be more losses than in the fight of a single turn), whoever wants to, always performs a skill test to withdraw.
    If it is not favorable, at the end of the “three turns” it is verified who had less damage and “is considered the winner of this round of combat”, he says. The winner would not need a skill test to withdraw if he wanted to. The loser, yes, should do the skill test.
    Finally, then you continue fighting repeating the above procedure, until whoever can win at the end of the round or achieve it by the skill test, or until you fall below the ship points and the corresponding rules in this regard.
    I’m going to try it this way. Thank you very much to all!!

    #188987
    skymandr
    Participant

    Hi again! In the English rules it says

    Immediately after the initial grapple, and at the next activation of every grappled ship, battle rages!

    The word “rages” in English does not imply “intensifies”, just that the battle is fierce and ongoing. In fact, the first round seems to be the deadliest, because the attacker gets a bonus for that round. At any following  activation of one of the involved (“grappled”) ships

    [that] grappled ship, when activated, may attempt to repel boarders by performing an attack (as describe on page 24), or it may attempt to disengage from the boarding action instead.

    Note that both the attacker and defender are “grappled ships”. If the player choses not to try to disengage, but to “repel boarders”, this starts a new round of battle. After every round of battle, including the first,

    [t]he ship that took the least amount of damage is considered to be the winner of this round of fighting.

    If the loser (the ship that took the most damage) has less than half of its original full Ship Points left, it has to take a skill test to see if it surrenders. If it drops below its break value, it surrenders without a skill test (unless special rules for the ship or captain say otherwise). If a ship ever reaches 0 Ship Points it is dead in the water. It doesn’t sink, but it it hasn’t surrendered, and can therefore not be activated again by special rules that may let you reactivate surrendered ships – all the crew are either dead, disabled or captured. If playing a scenario where you can capture ships, I would say that the winner can still capture the ship with 0 Ship Points, following the normal rules for that, since it has not sunk, but the rules are not clear on this.

    I think this last rule (0 Ship Points) applies to both winner and loser, but the first two (below half Ship Points or below Break Value) only to the loser. In addition, I would say that in the rare case that the ship that took the least damage, and should therefore be the winner, reaches 0 Ship Points, it is not the winner (no-one left to celebrate the victory!). In this case I would declare the surviving ship the winner instead, but the rules are not clear on this either.

    So if I board you, we fight, and I get a bonus. One of us will be the winner, and the other person may have to take a skill test. When one of the ships activates next time it doesn’t matter if it was the original attacker or not: both follow the same rules and may either try to disengage and flee, or to fight. If we fight, we again check who won, and the loser may have to surrender after a skill test, or because the ship dropped below its Break Value. This means that two ships can fight twice in the same turn, once for each ship’s activation, if both players decide that they want to fight. This continues across turns until one ship i successful in disengaging, surrenders or is disabled because it reaches 0 Ship Points (all crew dead, disabled or captured).

    Hope this helps!

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by skymandr.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by skymandr.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by skymandr.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by skymandr.
    #188992
    Jorge
    Participant

    Hi! Thanks for trying to help me. Keep in mind that I must use google translate with its limitations since I don’t speak English and it can be difficult for me to understand its translation.
    My problem is to define how to solve when you are not below the ship points and you are fighting.
    I think that boarding a ship essentially serves to retain it and neutralize it definitively. For this reason, whoever does so must have, if he wins the rounds of dice, obtain benefits to be able to carry out his strategy, as well as the boarded his chances of retiring if he is it serves that or if he is losing in said rounds.
    but, let’s eliminate the three shifts. Let’s see:
    1.The boarding occurs after passing the skill test.
    2 dice are thrown with the bonus of plus 1 the one that tackles the first time.
    3 what happens next?, because one had more damage. Nothing else? Let’s remember that the boarder intends to take over the ship, he gains absolutely nothing for winning that round?
    4 next turn and activation. The activated ship can make a skill test to retreat. Suppose that when the boarded ship is activated, it fails its skill test. and when fighting, it has more damage again. Does it continue like this, until the boarded ship manages to retreat with a skill test still losing in each round of dice?
    My idea is to hit the one who boards and tries to take over the ship. ability to take advantage of his success, as well as the approached if he wins the combat round, since the impacts are not that when fired from a distance. they are “impacts” of fighting inside the ship, with a more defining implication.
    True he wouldn’t take over the ship until she falls below ship points.
    So, whoever has less damage in the fight gets nothing?
    For example, he could be able to prevent the other from making a skill test to disengage, and continue until it is defined, whether the approached party, if he always wanted to disengage and escape, manages to win and can make a skill test to do so. or the addresser, if he was defeated, he cannot do it.
    Let’s say that the one who wins the round prevents the other from making a skill test in order to withdraw. I don’t know, I’m trying to give it a more significant meaning than simply rolling the dice, win or lose, over and over again, although maybe it is like that and it does have a meaning that I can’t see.
    It is difficult not to go into more detailed explanations, but my point is to define or know how to proceed properly in an approach, a stage that I consider to have dramatic and possibly defining implications, since for me, the regulations do not clarify anything, and as Warlord himself says, it leaves open the possibility of interpretations and that each one makes the modifications that he considers and can entertain himself in an atmosphere of friendship and relative competitiveness.
    Once again, thank you very much !!!

    #188993
    Jorge
    Participant

    Although, according to what you say, yes, it could be played without giving anything to the one that causes the most damage in the round, since “hits” are worth 2 points and 1 are worth 4, causing a possibly rapid drop towards the drop values .

    #188994
    skymandr
    Participant

    I am sorry. I will try to use simple English, so that the translation works well. English isn’t my first language either. 🙂

    1.The boarding occurs after passing the skill test.

    Yes.

    2 dice are thrown with the bonus of plus 1 the one that tackles the first time.

    Yes.

    3 what happens next?, because one had more damage. Nothing else? Let’s remember that the boarder intends to take over the ship, he gains absolutely nothing for winning that round?

    The winner gets nothing. The loser may have to surrender, but only if their ship has lost too many Ship Points:

    • Less than half of Ship Points left: skill test to see if the ship surrenders
    • Less than the Break Value left: the ship surrenders automatically

    4 next turn and activation. The activated ship can make a skill test to retreat. Suppose that when the boarded ship is activated, it fails its skill test. and when fighting, it has more damage again. Does it continue like this, until the boarded ship manages to retreat with a skill test still losing in each round of dice?

    Yes. It continues like this until one of the ships is successful in leaving or has surrendered. The bonus for the attacker is just for the first round. None of the ships gets a bonus on the following rounds. When the ship has surrendered, that ship will just sit there and cannot do anything. The winner is free to leave without a skill test. (There are some scenarios that have special rules that let the winner take control of the surrendered vessel.)

    That is what the English rules say, but if you want to make boarding a more important part of your game by giving the attacker a bonus, I say: go for it! 🙂

    Also have a look at the rules for capturing ships. That may be exciting to use. See the Special Rules of Scenario 3 (Chance Encounter, page 40 in the English rule book) for an example. There is a more complete example in the “Hold Fast!” book in the Additional Rules (page 86 in the English version of “Hold Fast!”).

    #188996
    Jorge
    Participant

    Hello Skymandr, thank you for your time and dedication.
    Finally, I will play the game as you say, because after so much reviewing among several, the ideas will become muted. Also, we practice it specially and that would be fine.
    Perhaps, I do not rule out incorporating later if it is appropriate, that the “winner” of the “round” of combat, prevents the other from making the skill test in its corresponding activation to force it to be retained.
    For now, I’ll abandon the “three turns” thing and just continue as you say/n and show. and we have practiced with a friend yesterday.
    If I have checked “chance encounter” and
    When the Hold Fast supplement in pdf is available in warlord, I will acquire it.
    Thank you very much to all !!!!!!!!!

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