Frenzied Charge

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  • January 21, 2019 at 10:01 am #153732
    arcole
    Participant

    Hi All,

    Had my first game of HC on saterday – Marians vs Seluecid, which raised a question. As it was the first game the Seluecid had all the toys, inclunding a Scythe chariot,

    For much of the game, the chariot was skulking behind a line of skirmishing infantry and cavalry, and by the end of the game had never made a charge.

    The question is, should the chariot have declared a charge as soon as it came into charge distance (i.e 18″) of an enemy?

    As I read the rules there are 3 things to take into account here. First, the frenzied charge rule specifically states “visible” enemy. Secondly, the visibility rules state that you cannot see through other units even in open order, but has a caveat suggesting that this can be adjusted according to the situution. The third thing is that other troops can be ordered to attack enemy not visible to them at the time the order is given.

    My preference on this is that in this situation open order units would not obscure visibility, whilst other formation would (unless a hill is involved).

    How do you all play this?

    Regards

    A.

    January 21, 2019 at 1:02 pm #153736
    Big Al
    Participant

    I take it that the chariot belonged to your opponent?

    It tends to be standard practice to control your unit swith Frenzied Charge by screening the enemy from them. A unit of Open Order troops does the trick nicely. You can issue an order to the unit to charge a particular enemy. That would require at least two moves, one to move through the open order unit and the second to charge. There is nothing wrong with what your opponent did.

    The most important thing is that the unit, in this case the chariot, must have a clear line of sight to the enemy and its front must be able to cross the front of the enemy. Now, because the game has to use static figures, you cannot say that the open order unit is not blocking line of sight at any time for “convenience”. So, the rule mechanic is that your friendly unit blocks line of sight.
    If you wer to go with your preference, would you also include inflicted casualties on your intervening unit when the chariot charged through them, or would it be that you “assume” that they would jump out of the way? Would that be because of convenience? There has to be consequence, so you can scythe down your own unit or have it block line of sight as per the rules.

    January 21, 2019 at 2:32 pm #153744
    arcole
    Participant

    Hi,

    Sorry if it has come over the wrong way. I am not saying that he did anything wrong, just trying to understand how this unit should work.

    By the way, it was not my units that would be blocking vsibility. It this case, he always had some of his own skirmishers between his chariots and and my units.

    So, to summarise, and make sure I have understood this. If the Scythe Chariots (or otehr Frenzied units) are screened by Friendly units, they do not have to charge. Really does not sound that frienzed. Fast yes, but not, to quote the rule book “fanatical, out of control, or frenzied troops who just can’t hold back!”

    However, if that sthe rule then thats the rule!

    Regards

    A.

    January 21, 2019 at 3:19 pm #153745
    Big Al
    Participant

    The rule is that they must charge the closest enemy.
    The criteria for charging is that the unit must be able to see the enemy.
    The only way that you can control that is to provide a screen in front of the chariot.

    How do you combat it and disperse the screen? Quite simple, you take a cheap, formed unit or an open order unit of your own and charge the enemy screen. If that screen is just a skirmisher unit, it will evade. Once the screen is gone, the chariot will be forced to charge your “cheap” unit, which in all probability will be destroyed, but so will the chariot.

    Placing the screen is a choice and it happens in most ancient rule systems, not just HC. It is a valid tactic to stop Frenzied units careering across the battlefield out of control at the start of the player’s first turn. That is what would happen as soon as your turn begins. There is no choice in it if the enemy is visible!

    January 22, 2019 at 4:39 pm #153834
    arcole
    Participant

    Hi Al,

    Sorry, I think there has been a miss-understanding here. I was not asking how to combat a frenzied charge, merely trying to ensure I understood the mechanics of how it charges.

    Neither I or my opponent understood the rule (as he fielded them he should have read up on it).

    As it happens for the entire game the chariots were screened by his own units, so by chance he was using them as requirfed.

    Regards

    A.

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