Usable for WotR?

[Bishop Lord]

Whilst readying my ECW army soon to become armies and waiting for my rule book to arrive. I just wondered is Pike and shotte usable for Wars of the Roses? I only ask as HC is usable but just wondered if the cannon rules etc may be better suited to later WoTR battles where pike and gunpowder were being used more.

Jason

[grant]

I would say yes. P&S starts at the beginning of the end of the Wotr era, with the Tudors and Italian wars. No reason then not to use it. I agree the gun rules are there - I don't know much about the reliability of Wotr pieces, but they couldn't have been much worse than Tudor era. Same with personal firearms; people are using the crossbow rules from HC, but there are actual firearm rules in P&S.

Hope this helps, only got my book last night! It is a thing of stunning beauty.

[sane max]

I have been using HC, very succesfully for the WotR, as Bows and Handguns and Cannon aside, it's more about chopping people up in hand to hand than blasting each other apart at range.

But the Tudor armies in P&S are not after all a thousand miles from those of the late WotR, so your mileage may vary.

Pat

[jazbo]

Because HC allows supports to pile in and fight, I think it is far better or representing WOTR, as it encourages you to keep your battle line solid.

[janner]

+1 for HC over P&S for WotR

[mikeland]

From a first read through Pike and Shotte is designed for the period just post WotR, and does seem to suit the more stabalised Pike and Shot tactics.

However I'm sure a few mods would soon make it suitable for WotR, but, likewise, as has been stated this is the same for HC.

The so called WotR was a really, not one conflict several and was a very transitional time in western warfare and culture, partly due to the introduction of firearms (hence it falls between the fault line were HC ends and P&S begins). There is archaeological evidence canon and fire arms played a fairly large role at Bosworth... however Towton, 20 odd year earlier really was decided largely by archery and by the slogging fest of hand to hand combat.

So my advice is, unless you already have HC, have a go at writing some house rules for later WotR for Pike and Shotte.
If you do have HC then like others have said that is probably the better option.

[Bishop Lord]

Good afternoon Gentlemen, and thank you for the replies, at the moment I use HC and erm(looks behind himself to ensure nobody over hearing) Warmaster for most of my gaming and have found HC very good for medieval games.But having yet to see P&S I was unsure if it handled the Late Medieval period better.All we need now is a purpose written Medieval set of rules

Jason.

[janner]

The so called WotR was a really, not one conflict several and was a very transitional time in western warfare and culture, partly due to the introduction of firearms (hence it falls between the fault line were HC ends and P&S begins). There is archaeological evidence canon and fire arms played a fairly large role at Bosworth... however Towton, 20 odd year earlier really was decided largely by archery and by the slogging fest of hand to hand combat.

So my advice is, unless you already have HC, have a go at writing some house rules for later WotR for Pike and Shotte.
If you do have HC then like others have said that is probably the better option.

You could write pretty much the same thing about the role of artillery at Crecy and that was a long way from being pike and shot.

Yes, field work at Bosworth (1485) has identified the fall of shot, but that was because of funding to identify the site of the battlefield. Besides, it was snowing at Towton (1461), which played havoc with all forms of powder - didn't help the Lancastrian archers much either. So not really a fair comparison I suggest. Why not use another medieval battle with which to compare your 'nearly P&S Bosworth', such as Castillon (1453) or Tewkesbury (1471) - in both of which artillery played a significant role...

As course Bosworth was actually decided by a heavy cavalry charge - or rather the failure of Richard II's mesnie to defeat Henry Tudor's (also mounted) household before the intervention of William Stanley.

As an aside, can anyone identify a period in the last millenium or more that wasn't 'in transition'

[grant]

Well, that's along the thinking why P&S would handle Wotr nicely.

[Jammers]

+1 for HC over P&S for WotR

+2 for HC