A question regarding Newcastle's Whitecoats

[grant]

Well, I really like the way the Marquis of Newcastle's regiment looked. I built up a regiment with bonnets, and am close to the point when I want to paint them.

PROBLEM!

My gaming buddy and I have decided to create our armies around Naseby. He, having my old Parliamentarian army, has mostly New Model Army.

So - can anyone suggest a unit that I could use my bonneted regiment as - preferably with some colour - green coats, something?

Any help appreciated ...

[HobbitMiles]

The Scots' Bonnet was so named because of its national association...

They are quite popular within the Sealed Knot, but probably weren't that common outside Scotland in the real ECW. As I've mentioned elesewhere I believe that Newcastle obtained a job lot of bonnets and issued them out to the troops under his command. I'm not aware that any other English units had them issued.

However, the records of most items of equipment issued out are quite scant and what headwear was available is still an issue for debate. Most informed opinion suggests that issued headgear was mostly either montero caps or monmouth caps. Some in re-enactment circles will tell you that the felt hats that we associate with the ECW were actually very expensive, however this runs contrary to almost all of the pictoral evidence and I found some documentary evidence of what were referrred to as "cheap country felts" at a few pennies each.

Personally I wouldn't get too hung up on it though and I certainly wouldn't repaint units or swap heads or any such thing. On the bright side white coats were probably fairly common as white cloth was cheap and hardwearing. The SK had another white coated Royalist ynuit, but off the top of my head I can't remember their name...I know it will come back to me as soon as I finish typing!!! (or as soon as I check the other thread )

[HobbitMiles]

Hawkins! probably wouldn't have come to me without looking it up.

[mikeland]

@Grant, Hobbitmiles, is right, the bonnets for Newcastles are highly speculative... Didnt stop me giving a few bonnets though.

My move would be to paint em as Newcastles,many make new Ensigns for the NMA, then do Marston Moor, in my opinion a more exciting battle, and it was in Yorkshire! I'm sure there were Parliamentarian Redcoats at MM, and there isn't that much difference between the better 1644 units and the NMA, the big changes with the NMA were more structural than visual on the whole. MM also gives you the option of doing Some covenanters at some stage if you want. Plus for the Royalists it's the same final score for either battle.

[grant]

Thanks Mikeland - I knew you would have an answer. I will suggest it to my body. And I do want Convenanters at some point, so that would be a good thing. I just liked the bonnets.

[grant]

Looked at Marston Moor - too big. So... back to: What to do with a unit with bonnets?

[HobbitMiles]

Paint them as Scots or make up a regiment and claim that you discovered them in a local archive but that the documents have since disappeared!!!

In all honesty we lack meaningful records for so many regiments that you can probably get away with simply stating "I'm using these to represent Sir Whiffingly Waffleby's in my army". It's better than junking figures!

[cavendish]

Newcastle had in his army at least 21 Regiments of foot (and possibly as many as 31) in the field, leading up to Marston Moor (most of which were numerically very, very small, with the exception of his own ‘double’ regiment).

Newcastles regiments of Foot in 1644 and where they were raised were:-

Sir Philip Byron Anglo/Irish
Cuthbert Conyers Durham
Lord Eythin (James King) Yorks/Durham
Sir John Girlington
John Hilton Durham
Sir Richard Hutton Yorks
Richard Kirkbride Cumb/Westm
Postumus Kirton
Sir Wm Lambton Durham Whitecoat
John Lamplugh Cumb Whitecoat
Sir Marmadule Langdale Yorks
Lord Mansfield
Newcastles Durham/Yorks Whitecoat
Sir Arthur Basset
Sir Charles Slingsby Northumberland
Charles Towneley
Lord Widdrington North/Durham
Sir Thomas Metham Trained Bands. Selby
Sir John Ramsden Trained Bands. Selby
Sir Wm Robinson Trained Bands. Selby
Sir Richard Strickland Trained Bands. Selby

Newcastle was commissioned in 1642 to raise troops for the King in Durham, Northumberland, Cumberland and Westmorland. Having spent several months recruiting, equipping and training, he marched south to Yorkshire, to counter the ‘Fairfax problem’. He arrived at York on the 3rd December 1642 with ‘6,000 well armed troops’ He had paid for and equipped them all! (To give an idea of possible regiment size let’s say his own regiment was say 1000 strong, that leaves 5000 divided by 20 (other regiments in his command) ...... = 250. See what I mean about small regiments!

The recognised choice of uniform coat color was dictated by the most commonly available hue in a particular locality. It is recognised, well documented and accepted that Newcastles own regiment wore white coats. The other regiments attached to his command recruited in Durham, Northumberland, Cumberland and Westmorland in 1642 were equipped and trained at the same time as his own and would have almost without exception been dressed in coats of undyed white or near white wollen cloth, exactly the same as hie own regiment. It is highly likely that if, as suggested, ‘bonnets’ were bought on mass .... they would have been distributed to all his troops, not just his own regiment. So to answer your question ... There are 8, (and possibly more) regiments in Newcastles northern army that were raised in the far north and in addition to wearing white coats would have had some bonnets worn in the ranks.

For bonnets appearing in Royalist armies the south of the country consider some of the Irish/Welsh troops that cropped up in various armies. Although there is no record of bonnets appearing on mass, it does not mean they were not there.
Hope this helps?

[grant]

Wow, that's some interesting reading! I will re-consider what I do with my regiment now - they are built but unpainted.

Thanks for that!