Auxillary Cavalry Question

[canadasteve]

JUst got my box set of Aux Cav and was wondering what they were carrying in the long pouches to be afixed to the horse flank ? Its not long enough for more spears, they already have a sword, so did they carry javelins too ??

Thanks guys

[carvel2]

Have the same question....they remain unpainted in my spares box awaiting a purpose!

[Big Al]

Yup! Javelin case. I didn't fit them to mine. I felt that they got in the way.

[Invisible officer]

These cases of javelins give them a lot of "fire"power. Riding the Cantabrian circle they can be a big pain in the a.. for any infantry.

Hard to hit and showering the enemies with missiles. Weakening them, charging them, making them run.

[Big Al]

To be honest, most wargames rules, if not all, allow that units of javelin armed troops have enough javelins to see them through the battle or game. These cases are just modelled to depict that. Sometimes, men are depicted carrying a couple of extra javelins in their shield hand these have them in the cases. It is only modelling license, I don't think it means that they have extra javelins that would turn them into "machine gunners". The Roman auxilliary cavalry aren't particularly known for using tactics like the Cantabrian circle, but they could adopt it, I suppose. They are a bit heavy for that sort of tactic.

[Invisible officer]

Flavius Arrianus wrote under Hadrian his art of tactic and he gives us a good description of the Roman use of missiles by horsemen. And he described exactly the Cantabrian circle as part of the Roman tactic.

It was also part of the mounted games that are based on the training and tactics.

The case for three or more missiles is expressly mentioned by Flavius Josephus (Bell Iud. III. 5,5) for the cavalry of Vespasian.
His description of the battle of Askalon (III. 2,1) show how they used the javelins to attack a far more numerous force of foot, killing many with few losses among the Roman horse.

De iaculatione equestri (About the javelin throwing by Horsemen) by Plinius is unfortunately only mentioned by other authors, the original is lost. He was Praefect of an ala and wrote this as a training handbook.

The speach of Hadrian about the manoeuvre at Lambaesais in modern Algeria (Corpus inscriptionum Latinarium, VIII.18042) mentions the use of Spear and Javelin by units like the Ala I Pannoniorum.
The Cantabric circle is even mentioned in this speach in connection with the Equitis Cohortis VI Commagenorum with the reservation that it is difficult for such a mixed horse and foot unit to give a good show following the superb one of the ala.

[Big Al]

Didn't say they didn't use it, only that they weren't particularly known for it, IO. Roman cavalry is considered poor, especially in wargaming terms. If they were fine exponents of the use of such tactics, their reputation might have been better.

[Invisible officer]

There is a tendency among rule writers to mix facts from different centuries. The imperial cavalry of the 1st and 2nd century was very different from the cavalry Julius Caesar had. Professional regulars compared to ad hoc units.

The 1st / 2nd cavalry was very professional and well trained. We have the sources that units had javelin cases , trained with javelins and we have battle records of successfull use of javelins against foot.

The poor reputation among gamers is not based on ancient sources and surely not deserved for that time.

[Correus]

There is a tendency among rule writers to mix facts from different centuries. The imperial cavalry of the 1st and 2nd century was very different from the cavalry Julius Caesar had. Professional regulars compared to ad hoc units.

The 1st / 2nd cavalry was very professional and well trained. We have the sources that units had javelin cases , trained with javelins and we have battle records of successfull use of javelins against foot.

The poor reputation among gamers is not based on ancient sources and surely not deserved for that time.

Sources please......

[Invisible officer]

Sources. See my earlier post for some , Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:40 am

Let's turn the question upside down , count the cavalry disasters of the armies of the 1st - 2nd centuries.
The Romans took the Parthian capitol in 116 (keeping the border safe until 161) , won against the Dacian allies - Sarmatians , held the border in Africa and Asia. All against superb horsemen. Nothing the Legions and foot auxilia could achieve without adequate cavalry.

There are no complains from the ancient sources about the alleged inferiority of the Roman cavalry in this time. It was used for border patrol, scouting , forays into Germania (and other border regions) and to support the infantry in battle. And all that was done successfull.

We get blinded by the Legions. These Roman citizens are in the center of the Roman author's view. If we count all the failures of these heavy soldiers and compare them with the Imperial auxilia horse failures in 1st / 2nd century the picture would change.

It's a little like the modern picture of French North-Africa. Movies and novels show the Legionaire column in the desert, marching from fort to fort. But who remembers the superb Spahi cavalry?