New release suggestions (was 'Fillers')

[Parus Ater]

It's specifics, the Kilt was invented as a military uniform, arguably in defense of the rather brutal methods of the Highland Clearances, Kilts were never really Scottish at all, but became Scottish with the tartan re-branding of Scotland that started with Walter Scott. Tartan is also largely a post re-brand invention.

Crofters and people of Highland culture were distinct to Scottish people, even to the point where the reformation didn't touch them and they were wearing Plaids. Plaid is a single bolt of cloth measuring roughly 4-5m long and was worn in any manner of ways for the best part of fifteen hundred years as a form of all in one garment. From around 1600 onwards fashion lent more towards wearing them belted around the waist with the bulk tucked and hanging to the rear so the wearer could wear it over his or her (plaids are non gender specific) body like a cloak.
This gave rise to the "Belted Plaid" which became more and more prevalent towards early 1700's and ubiquitous by 1745 among Highlanders. Around this time the English Army was still trying to be "British" (I've got socks that are older than Britain was then) and after the negative publicity of them ethnically cleansing vast swathes of people since some English toff somewhere decided a human life was worth less than a sheep's, they decided to incorporate something "Scotch" into the Army to make it more inclusive. They decided to make a fancy dress version of the belted plaid and created the skirt, sorry, kilt.

To summerise, Plaid's are ancient and very much like a toga. kilts are a military uniform skirt to appease the masses.
I say all this as someone who lives in the Lowlands, in an area where people spoke Welsh before English, who's last name actually means Welshman, doesn't regard himself as being European and shamefully has worn tartan. A modern one.

[Parus Ater]

Anyway, back on topic......

Various units in WWII - No to Kilts, yes to para berets and Commando Comforters with pictorial and first hand sources confirming. I'm even buying Commando comforter heads to fit on some Americans when they come out based on this.

[janner]

Around this time the English Army was still trying to be "British" (I've got socks that are older than Britain was then) and after the negative publicity of them ethnically cleansing vast swathes of people since some English toff somewhere decided a human life was worth less than a sheep's, they decided to incorporate something "Scotch" into the Army to make it more inclusive. They decided to make a fancy dress version of the belted plaid and created the skirt, sorry, kilt.

An English Army trying to be British - would that include the Scots Guards, as well as 1st, 21st, 25th and 26th of Foot? What about that notorious English regiment the Scots Greys?

Yes, the highland clearances were a nasty business, but driven as much by the aristocracy of Scotland (such as the MacLeod) as their English relations - and being able to distinguish the two was pretty impossible from the 12th century onwards. It was as much about the pre-Union internal politics of Scotland as greed.

So let's try and keep some balance here and save the pseudo Scottish history with it's anti-English agenda for the tourists

[Invisible officer]

With IO on the journal thing. A reputable history journal with peer reviewed articles is considered scientific in academia.

I'm a bit lost on the 'no highlander ever wore a kilt' thing.

The Act of Union of 1707 saw the 'English' or 'Scots' armies (and navies) come together to form the British Army. There was no 'English Army' thereafter. There were highlander units in the British Army, which eventually adopted the British invented/developed kilt. I've met many soldiers from units that wear tartan kilts who consider themselves to be Highlanders - as far as I can see, it has as much an ethnic/historical foundation as deciding if you want to be called English, Scots, Welsh etc..

or am I missing something?

Still - in my day if you wanted to started a scrap, calling The Watch an English regiment was always a winner - much like asking a Royal Scot where his spats were

BW English

You are missing nothing.

I can't follow PA with his arguments. He claim that Highlander wear no Kilts. So he must claim that the British army Highland regiments are no Highlanders. There is no other conclusion. Black or white, no grey possible. Because the regiments have tailored Kilts (or trews) since 1794. No plaids. There are no recorded complains about the change. from that time. Soldiers are keen to look smart. And the tailor art of pleating is smart.

I have a few (IO few) Kilts in my own collection and handled many many more. Not a single with a label stating: Plaid. The modern plaid is worn only on the shoulder , there is another very collectable military item, the plaid brooch.

12 £. I buy each good condition original army No. 15 Red Grant PA offers me for that price. Would be the deal of the decade. Like stealing candy from a ..... Well, only if you find enough on offer. It's no No.1 mass item. What every expert on kilts knows. Most dealers are unable to get you one.

[Parus Ater]

Around this time the English Army was still trying to be "British" (I've got socks that are older than Britain was then) and after the negative publicity of them ethnically cleansing vast swathes of people since some English toff somewhere decided a human life was worth less than a sheep's, they decided to incorporate something "Scotch" into the Army to make it more inclusive. They decided to make a fancy dress version of the belted plaid and created the skirt, sorry, kilt.

An English Army trying to be British - would that include the Scots Guards, as well as 1st, 21st, 25th and 26th of Foot? What about that notorious English regiment the Scots Greys?
)

At the time, yes. It's of course very British now and everything that goes with it

[Invisible officer]

But back to the release suggestions. I would like to see the loosely anounced AA guns soon . If possible with matching vehicles.
And vehicles for the AT guns availabble.

[Cubster]

I can't follow PA with his arguments. He claim that Highlander wear no Kilts.

It's easy enough to follow really, I managed it fairly well.

My impression is that Parus was making a wry cultural reference, not trying to pin down pedantic specifics or drag yet another thread into pointless reams of questionable 'fact'.

Of course, I'm always open to the possibility I'm wrong. I find it liberating.

[Parus Ater]

I can't follow PA with his arguments. He claim that Highlander wear no Kilts. So he must claim that the British army Highland regiments are no Highlanders. There is no other conclusion. Black or white, no grey possible. Because the regiments have tailored Kilts (or trews) since 1794. No plaids. There are no recorded complains about the change. from that time. Soldiers are keen to look smart. And the tailor art of pleating is smart.

So we take the Kilt as a modern definition previous to it being invented (according to your own scientific journals ) was worn by civilians in the Scottish Highlands previous to The Year of Sheep as fact based on you owning an army surplus kilt from fifteen years ago and people in the modern army now who were largely born in the lowlands describing themselves as "Highlanders"?

I have a few (IO few) Kilts in my own collection and handled many many more. Not a single with a label stating: Plaid. The modern plaid is worn only on the shoulder , there is another very collectable military item, the plaid brooch.

Again, you boasting that you've bought some modern items provides proof. It's like me using my 1992 PASGT as proof that the US used Kevlar in 1917.

What you've done is strictly apply the word "Highlander" to military units in the British Army. Highlanders were a civilization all on their own and nothing to do with the Army or even very much to do with Scotland.

[Invisible officer]

You are right Cubster , But I realy get from all that pseudo nationalistic fuss from Bavarians or Scotsmen. In Oxford I met a NY "Scotsman". Proud that his ancestors fought at Culloden against the bloody English / German king. Some times later his grandma visited him. They went on a tour to Scotland. He came back. Shocked. She told him on the field that he remembered the great grandpa story only half. The ancestor fought at Culloden, but for that ...... king.

And PA. Highland civilization? All these exile Scots that see the castles and paintings of well clad (and fed) nobles and dream of the glorious past. Forgetting that their expelled ancestors had been tennants and sub temmants living in turf huts. Give them two weeks of that great life in winter and they sell Scotland for a water closet.

Did I wrote one word that the pleated kilt was worn there? My Kilt labels are proof that the British army call them Kilts today . Not plaids. I claim nothing else. And they are proudly worn by modern Highland soldiers.
Most of them know better than to dream of the living of a sub tennant in a primitive feudal system.

[Cubster]

Well, let's all share a gigantic bowl of salt porridge, a slab of tablet and a deep fried Mars bar before washing it down with Irn Bru and expiring of cardiac arrest aged 38, then go to sleep happy in our cultural heritage that we are free to enjoy to our hearts' content in whatever we see fit.

Next weekend, how the Welsh invented Britain, are the rightful rulers of the Isles and why eating sloppy seaweed and not using vowels is better than nibbling cucumber sangritches and having indoor plumbing.