charge question

[alopex]

Something that came up in a game.

2 units red and blue are back to back within 8 inch from eachother. Reds turn and they want to charge the blue unit in their rear. Is this possible in 1 turn. Are they allowed to turn around and charge and so yes how many moves do they need?

[HobbitMiles]

Interesting. If they were facing each other then no orders would be needed as the attacking unit could do so on initiative. BUT a unit can only charge what it can see, and can only see to its front 180 degrees. Personally I think 2 orders, 1 to about face - even though technically this is free I'd say it couldn't be part of the charge move and 1 to charge. However, I think it is one of those things that probably falls into the realms of a gentlemen's agreement or the toss of a coin if one side strongly feels that it could/should be done on initiative.

[Big Al]

I agree with Hobbitmiles. You would need two orders, one to change face and the other to charge. Order wording and dice rolls, really.

[alopex]

ok thanks for the answer.

The question was not about initiative, because everybody agreed that initiative was not possible. The question was rather that when you charge does the unit you charge must be in your front when your turn starts.

From your answers I say that you can charge somebody in your back or side as long as you get the moves needed.

[Big Al]

The target unit needs to be in LOS of the attacking unit at the start of the move in which it charges. The confusing bit here, which I have said often before, is the word "move". We are talking about unit moves within a unit's turn. Each order can consist of between one and three moves depending upon the dice roll result that passes the order. By the same token, do you have a problem with a unit starting its move behind a hill and being able to charge into a unit on the other side of that hill? At the start of the move, when you issued the order, the unit did not have LoS to the target unit on the other side of the hill, but if you rolled low enough on the order dice and you gave the correct order, the unit is able to charge the enemy, because it will move to within LoS of the enemy before the start of the move in which it will charge (the last 12 inches).

[jazbo]

oooh interesting.

On page 26 it says:

"it is not necessary that the intended opponent is in sight when the order is given"

It then says on page 57:

"the units leader must be able to see the unit being charged..."


So, for me, the unit can be ordered to about face and charge as a single order that turn quite legitimately, even though it cannot contact with just one move because it cannot see its intended target using one move. However, with multiple moves it does become visible before a charge move is made (ie the final move of 12" or less). You could about face and move towards the unit within 8" using one move, and if you get two or more moves, you can use the second move as your charge move. The physical distance of the charge move to be made is irrelevant (as long as it is no more than 12").

So no need for two orders, which would require two different turns as a unit can only receive on order per turn. You must be able to see the enemy at the start of your charge move, which if you get two or three moves allows you to claim the second move as your charge move.

As Big Al says, the distinction is between a TURN, and the up to three MOVES for a unit within each turn.

Rick, Rick...?

[HobbitMiles]

Sorry, I meant moves rather than orders. It is very open to interpretation because elsewhere I recall it being stated that you could legitimately order a unit to cross a ridgeline, for example, and charge any enemy encountered along the way. Likewise on initiative you [i]could[i], I guess, say "move to XYZ and charge any enemy encountered along the way". One for a gentleman's agreement I feel.

[Big Al]

oooh interesting.

On page 26 it says:

"it is not necessary that the intended opponent is in sight when the order is given"

It then says on page 57:

"the units leader must be able to see the unit being charged..."


So, for me, the unit can be ordered to about face and charge as a single order that turn quite legitimately, even though it cannot contact with just one move because it cannot see its intended target using one move. However, with multiple moves it does become visible before a charge move is made (ie the final move of 12" or less). You could about face and move towards the unit within 8" using one move, and if you get two or more moves, you can use the second move as your charge move. The physical distance of the charge move to be made is irrelevant (as long as it is no more than 12").

So no need for two orders, which would require two different turns as a unit can only receive on order per turn. You must be able to see the enemy at the start of your charge move, which if you get two or three moves allows you to claim the second move as your charge move.

As Big Al says, the distinction is between a TURN, and the up to three MOVES for a unit within each turn.

Rick, Rick...?

No, you only need one order, but you need to include the charge, or full extent of what you want to do in the order. Then you roll for it. If you roll a single move, your unit can about face. If you roll two moves, then your unit will about face for the first move and then charge for the second. It doesn't matter if you would normally allow an about face as part of a normal move, you would need two because the target unit is not in LoS when the order is given and needs to be when the unit starts its charge. Don't get it confused with the proximity rule, which was designed to stop players "jinking" units from the front of a target unit onto its flank or rear so that it can charge said flank or rear, rather than the front.

[alopex]

The ridge part added to the confusion. Until now we played that you could only charge over a ridge if you were facing (not seeing) the enemy at the start of your first move. As I understood from all the answers, it doesn't matter, they can be with their back to the enemy, as long as they have enough movement they can charge, opening for some interesting new tactics

[Big Al]

The ridge part added to the confusion. Until now we played that you could only charge over a ridge if you were facing (not seeing) the enemy at the start of your first move. As I understood from all the answers, it doesn't matter, they can be with their back to the enemy, as long as they have enough movement they can charge, opening for some interesting new tactics

What? You're not thinking of marchng your troops on backwards, are you?