LORD OF THE RINGS & Other fantasy realms...

[jscottbowman]

While I know Hail Caesar is a historical ruleset, it seems to me readily adaptable for fantasy gaming too.

I would really like to see a set of army lists and any necessary rules 'tweaks' for Lord of the Rings specifically and wondered if anyone has done any work on this?

If not perhaps this post and ongoing thread could be a place to get some ideas together?

I'd also like to see some dare I say generic templates for various fantasy creatures, so that other fantasy realms could also be considered.

regards
Scott

[grant]

While I know Hail Caesar is a historical ruleset, it seems to me readily adaptable for fantasy gaming too.

I would really like to see a set of army lists and any necessary rules 'tweaks' for Lord of the Rings specifically and wondered if anyone has done any work on this?

If not perhaps this post and ongoing thread could be a place to get some ideas together?

I'd also like to see some dare I say generic templates for various fantasy creatures, so that other fantasy realms could also be considered.

regards
Scott

Something like that has been done in a completely unreadable format, called Hordes of the Things. It's written in a strange, archaic language called Barkerese, read and understood by very few on the earth indeed.

Seriously though, if you have HoTT, it could be a good starting point for your templates of critters and you could adapt them to HC. Also the War of the Rings would work as a starting point to retrofit to HC, if you ever tried that rule set. I have, but didn't really enjoy it. I preferred the skirmish Lord of the Rings rules proper.

Good luck on your adventure!

[Big Al]

Hi Scott

Someone did this using Black Powder before HC was released. They loaded it up into the files section on the BP Yahoo group. I would recommend downloading it and taking a look at how you could modify it to HC. Apparently. it worked very well. I remember having adiscussion with him about flyers because he had run into a couple of problems. He liked a couple of ideas I suggested and incorporated them.

[jscottbowman]

While I know Hail Caesar is a historical ruleset, it seems to me readily adaptable for fantasy gaming too.

I would really like to see a set of army lists and any necessary rules 'tweaks' for Lord of the Rings specifically and wondered if anyone has done any work on this?

If not perhaps this post and ongoing thread could be a place to get some ideas together?

I'd also like to see some dare I say generic templates for various fantasy creatures, so that other fantasy realms could also be considered.

regards
Scott

Something like that has been done in a completely unreadable format, called Hordes of the Things. It's written in a strange, archaic language called Barkerese, read and understood by very few on the earth indeed.

Seriously though, if you have HoTT, it could be a good starting point for your templates of critters and you could adapt them to HC. Also the War of the Rings would work as a starting point to retrofit to HC, if you ever tried that rule set. I have, but didn't really enjoy it. I preferred the skirmish Lord of the Rings rules proper.

Good luck on your adventure!

Hi Grant, thanks for the reply.
LOL - yeah I have the HotT book, and its varied army lists ideas I love, but as you I, struggle to fathom the rules, and when I have tried messing about with them , they just seem rather dull...
I also have WOTR, but have grown dissallusioned with it due to several 'issues' - hence my hopes for HC variant.
Whilst the skirmish game LOTR - SBG is fun, I have always viewed the grander conflicts of LOTR more interesting to put on the tabletop.

regards
Scott

[jscottbowman]

Hi Scott

Someone did this using Black Powder before HC was released. They loaded it up into the files section on the BP Yahoo group. I would recommend downloading it and taking a look at how you could modify it to HC. Apparently. it worked very well. I remember having adiscussion with him about flyers because he had run into a couple of problems. He liked a couple of ideas I suggested and incorporated them.

Hey Big Al,
Yeah I have downloaded that BP variant, but HC is a subtly different beast to BP, hence my hopes for a HC lotr variant that would seem more appropriate to LOTRs pseudo-dark-age/medieval setting.

Call me lazy but I had hoped cleverer heads than mine might have already done the conversion work for me!

regards

Scott

[grant]

Hi Grant, thanks for the reply.
LOL - yeah I have the HotT book, and its varied army lists ideas I love, but as you I, struggle to fathom the rules, and when I have tried messing about with them , they just seem rather dull...
I also have WOTR, but have grown dissallusioned with it due to several 'issues' - hence my hopes for HC variant.
Whilst the skirmish game LOTR - SBG is fun, I have always viewed the grander conflicts of LOTR more interesting to put on the tabletop.

regards
Scott

I agree on WoTR - we tried it locally, and some really liked it, many despised it. It was virtually 100% responsible for the death of LoTR - Warhammer works much better for big battles, in Fantasy environments. Boggles the mind why GW wanted another big battle game; no, wait, I know the answer - flog more minis! But if it kills off your other nice game, was it worth it? I think not.

The DBA/HotT games are very different. DBA is fun in large part because of how small it is. 2x2 table, 12 elements, go! HotT while better written (lolwut?) is just bigger. I have seen many interesting armies done for HotT, but have to confess ebaying wasn't a bad idea. Same with my DBA, selling it I have had no regrets.

Good luck with your rules conversion, be sure to let us know how you get on. Locally, some of the guys are talking about LoTR again, which is kind of nice. My Mordor army might make a reappearance after all!

[zedeyejoe]

Now I will just speak up and say I am a real fan of Hordes of the Things. Just so wacky.

[jscottbowman]

I agree on WoTR - we tried it locally, and some really liked it, many despised it. It was virtually 100% responsible for the death of LoTR - Warhammer works much better for big battles, in Fantasy environments. Boggles the mind why GW wanted another big battle game; no, wait, I know the answer - flog more minis! But if it kills off your other nice game, was it worth it? I think not.

The DBA/HotT games are very different. DBA is fun in large part because of how small it is. 2x2 table, 12 elements, go! HotT while better written (lolwut?) is just bigger. I have seen many interesting armies done for HotT, but have to confess ebaying wasn't a bad idea. Same with my DBA, selling it I have had no regrets.

Good luck with your rules conversion, be sure to let us know how you get on. Locally, some of the guys are talking about LoTR again, which is kind of nice. My Mordor army might make a reappearance after all!

I liked WOTR initially, but several games later issues cropped up and frustrations arose...
There does appear to be a resurgance of interest in LOTR SBG again, as evidence in some of the blogs I read, appararently an immenent tournie in the US already has about 40 paid up attendies...
regards
Scott

[jscottbowman]

Now I will just speak up and say I am a real fan of Hordes of the Things. Just so wacky.

The army list ideas are certainly fun and varied, which is why they and their ideas appeal to me...but as for the rules... I guess I am just not a student of 'Barker-ese' !
regards
Scott

[rick priestley]

There's certainly no reason why the BP/HC format shouldn't work fine as a game system for fantasy battles of similar scale and proportions - indeed, the flexible basing means you can take any models for any other game and construct HC/BP units very easily. And I know several guys who have done just that - and who have been very enthusiastic about the result!

In a non-commercial hobby forum - such as the Yahoo group/s - it would be relatively easy for players to swop information, rules and army lists about converting other fantasy games systems over to HC. But otherwise - there are sensitivies concerning intellectual property and licenses to consider - oh things were so much easier in the 70's - sadly not quite so free and easy nowadays. LOTR - for example - is two licenses - one from the film (Newline and its successor) and one from the book (Tolkien Ents) - the films being sublicensed from the literary license but the two being distinct in terms of IP. Either way GW has the tabletop wargames rights to both. That means it's impossible for Warlord - or me or anyone else - to publish a book of LOTR lists for HC - for example. I'm not sure what the situation is with Conan - or Edgar Rice Burroughs - as those are much older properties - but literary rights laws do vary from country to country. I know several chaps who got very excited about the Game of Thrones TV series - Wars of the Roses figures being very close in style - but I don't know if anyone has a license to produce figures for that. Most people - or many fantasy gamers anyway - are going to own Warhammer figures too - and obviously GW own that IP outright.

None of this matters to hobbyists and individuals - who are ultimately free to use whatever rules they like with whatever figures they like - and make use of whatever IP they like for that matter. And swop that information amongst themsleves (if anyone fancies setting up that Yahoo group!). But it does matter commercially - so you can't print and sell a book full of Warhammer, LOTR, Conan, GoT army lists - and if you were to do so you can bet the lawyers would come knocking. Similarly - I don't think Warlord could put specific IP owned lists up on this site - even though there's strictly no commercial gain as Warlord don't sell fantasy figures - but it could be argued to be making commercial capital out of the association by promoting our game on the back of GW's figure range.

But that doesn't stop us doing our own thing with fantasy of course - one day!