The Dacians

[Dragonfire Games]

The Dacians came to a bad end around 106BC when Trajan finally destroyed the backbone of Dacian resistence and the Dacian King committed suicide as a result. Not all things had gone badly for the Dacians in the lead up to the end and one can safely say that they put up a sterling fight from 86-106 AD. Decabalus had been responsible for the defeat of 2 Roman Legions at the Battle of Tapae in 87AD and again at the Second Battle of Tapae, Decabalus held off a large Roman host commanded by Trajan until storms rumbled in and the Dacians retreated due to the "bad portents", rather than any serious tactical success of the Romans.

The greatest weapon of the Dacians was the Falx, either 1 handed or 2 handed. It was greatly feared by the Romans and rightly so as it could hack arms off in a single blow or cleave shields in two. I have developed a list, although I have not compiled any points for it. I really am not sure of how the points system works, sorry Rick, I am a great fan of points in games, hence the reason why I added all the points for Koenig Krieg before publishing that set.

Anyway some guidance on this list for the Dacians would be greatly appreciated, as I am trying to get Hail Caesar up and running in a big way at my shop in Brisbane Australia - Dragonfire Games (shameless plug )

Army General 8
Subs 7 or 8 undecided

* Decabulus "The Brave" - May be taken as Army general he is a 9/8 becomes 8 when he fails an order.

Maximums:
0-4 Falxman units
0-24 Warriors
0-4 Archers
0-4 Light Archers
0-4 Skirmish Javelins
0-2 Heavy Cavalry
0-3 Light Cavalry
0-1 Scout Cavalry
0-2 Cataphracts
0-2 Light Artillery

Stats
Falx 7 6 2/0 0 5+ 6 2 Handed
Warriors 6 6 3 0 5+ 6
Archers 5 5 3 3 6+ 6 Bow, Open Order
Light Javelins 5 4 3 0 0 6 Open Order
Light Archers 4 4 3 3 0 6 Bows, Open Order
Heavy Cavalry 8 5 3 0 5+ 6
Light Cavalry 7 5 3 0 6+ 6 Open Order
Cataphracts 9 6 3/0 0 4+ 6 Cataphract
Allied Light Cavalry 6 4 3 3 6+ 6 Bows, Open Order
Captured Artillery 1 1 2 2 0 3 Light Artillery

Dacian armies could get rid of the Falx units and the Warriors could have a special rule of two handed weapons to represent the Falx in the units. Maybe even sprinkle each Warrior unit with a few Falx figures in the front rank... certainly the Warlord Dacian Boxes in the shop are packed this way. Was this what Rick was thinking for the dacian warriors?

thoughts anyone

[Dragonfire Games]

Ok I think I have discoverd how the points work. Here goes.

Army General - LD 8 - 25 points
Upgrade to Decabulus Ld 9/8 till fails a command - +15 points
Sub Generals - LD 7 - 15 points

Warriors - 25 points
Upgrade to a Large Unit - +10 points
Archers - 20 points
Light Javelins - 15 points
Light Archers - 15 points
Heavy Cavalry - 30 points
Light Cavalry - 25 points
Cataphract - 40 points
Allied Light Cavalry - 30 points
Light Artillery - 20 points

I rounded up or down (I prefer working with whole numbers iin increments of 5, not much of a fan of DBMM/FOG or GW games which do not do this, much prefer warmaster etc where all was in increments of +5 points) All cavalry i added an extra +5 points because of their move ability and Artillery I added +10points for range and anything with a 4+ save i added an extra +5 points because the 4+ save is really good. Very rough still but it is beginning to get a good feel for a points game. I am still tempted to double them just to get near a nice round points number like 1000 points. That would make warrior units about 50 points a good number for medium infantry as they are the core and so should have around 500 points worth or about 10 units.

Just some thoughts on this one....

[Titus Flavius]

Why not just divide all points values by 5?

[Cubster]

Why not just divide all points values by 5?

What's wrong with you man? More points! More points!

It's an odd psychological thingy that things in fives or tens are more attractive to us than things in ones. It's why so many computer games will award you 10pts for shooting a bad guy instead of 1pt.

[Titus Flavius]

More points is a sign of moral decay! We must prevent the rot at the source!!!

[Cubster]

More points is a sign of moral decay! We must prevent the rot at the source!!!

I've got some rotten sauce in the food cupboard. I call it 'Burger Relish', which really just means it's developed a mean kick through its advanced decomposition.

[carvel2]

@Cubster....hmmmmmm

[Titus Flavius]

Sauce goes in the fridge...heretic!

[rick priestley]

Looks like a very credible list - the army lists I've done for Warlord all have points values - I've no worries about points values where they're useful - I just don't have much use for them myself at the moment. If we were to organise some Hail Caesar get togthers I'm sure we'd use the points values.

The Lists I've done for Warlord are in production - they include a full breakdown of the points value system I've used - as well as guidelines on how I prefer to field certain unit types. The basic points are just the stats added up - which takes care of the unit sizes. The weapons and special rules are bonuses on top - often +3 for standard units and +2 for small. Bonuses that are equvalent to a stat increase are usually rated as a stat increase (+1).

The Sarmatian heavy cavalry - I treat these as heavy cavalry with an upgrade for cataphracts. I know they had some measure of barding on the horses but they really weren't 'cataphract' in the same sense as Parthians (for example). I think they were quite mobile too. But I put the option in as it's really down to interpretation. Sarmatians (the heavies) were famous for charging at the first opportunity - they didn't use their bows as a primary weapon - so I reduced the ranged value down to 1. On the whole, if troops are dual -armed I tend to reduce either the hand-to-hand or ranged values down depending on whether they are primarily one or the other.

Not sure what your heavy cavalry are if they're not Sarmatians - Dacians would be light cavalry I think. I guess they could potentially have some close fighting cavalry - but I'd tend to make these mediums. On the whole - most 'heavy' cavalry of the classical period are rated as medium in Hail Caesar unless they are exceptionally heavily armoured - Roman cavalry are usually rated medium for example - I start to rate western european cavalry as heavy from the third century when the balance starts to shift from infantry to cavalry. This keeps the balance between horse and foot about right for the period - apart from in the east - where the heavier Parthian/Sassanid cavalry are hard for the Romans to beat - as it reasonable I feel!

Rick

[Dragonfire Games]

I know, I know! Points Oh such a dirty word

Where there are all gentlemen gamers a good scenario game is a wonderful thing, I have put on many myself. Although a good Roast or BBQ and copious amounts of beer is also required at such events.

However runnning a shop or trying to develop interest is sadly driven, as a general rule and like it or not, via tournaments.

Also the word gentlemen rarely carries over to many gamers and as such the need to balance players megolamania via points is not a bad way of encouraging and protecting new gamers or old gamers towards new eras.

I have been jotting down a few more ideas in this excel doc. I have played around with both Dacian and Imperial Roman armies. Have not added too many small units at this stage, maybe I should?

Well until such time as new lists are available these may well be my groups beginning point.

Thanks for the great response Rick and everyone else as well.