Unit sizes

[BigMike]

No, they don't 'need' any more models at all, the 'warband 4 models deep' thing is just that they warband looks better that way, it's a purely visual thing.  because base depth doesn't matter in HC your friend could play with a warband 2 deep and as long as you both know that that's a warband you can give it any stamina figure you like.

[Jammybee]

Thanks.

[zedeyejoe]

More units means more game choices, so the more units you have the better. You have to be able to represent the different unit formations. So I would suggest 3-4 bases per unit, perhaps 4-6 figures per base?

[Big Al]

DexterWard said:

Hail Caesar is a big battle set, so I wouldn't expect to see Maniples represented at all.I'd expect the smallest Roman unit to be a legion, or at least one line of a legion (Hastates, Principes or Triarii) – dunno what sort of numbers of figures – but so long as you are consistent with the two sides it doesn't really matter.  

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 Why not? The Maniples were used in big battles because that was the formation and the "chequer board" style of fighting was used to utilise the units. Keep hitting in waves of fresh units and allow the spent units to fall back through the gaps to regroup. In wargaming terms it is difficult to field, but it can work, especially with HC as it allows for such formations. Also, all the maniples will mean larger divisions, unit wise, which will mean longevity in that it will take longer to reach broken division point.

[Cubster]

Would a player be able to feel confident about his ability to control their units so finely in HC though?

[BigMike]

If they frame their orders clearly i don't see why they souldn't be able to.  If you were going to tweak the rules for maniples you could allow them a fall-back order on initiative, or a Fall-Back-In-Good-Order to represent rehersed tactical movement at individual maniple level - like in WAB

[Big Al]

I agree with Mike. Why not? The units would be able to evade or alternatively and because there are no army lists, you could create a "useful rule" called Maniple which would allow a maniple to disengage and fall back. You could even incorporate the dice roll used in the Sweeping Advance rule to check for disorder once the move has completed. Personally, I would make it an initiative move to reflect the training that Mike has mentioned. That way it still allows the commander to order the next group of maniples to charge the same enemy units in the way that the maniples actually worked.Because this is all off the top of my head, it would need some fine tuning and additional thought. A maniple is a small block of infantry and they would form up into a line in order to charge, probably two ranks, so the order to charge may need to be executed over two moves. I don't think you could use the initiative to charge, but that is yet to be seen. Actually, because HC doesn't really require a unit to be in line as such and a unit can charge through a friendly unit, the whole thing could even be allowed to operate during the initiative phase. The difficulty could be supports. It may need an adaptation of The Pigs Head or something. The point is that this rule system will allow just about anything and for once, we may have a set of rules that will allow the Roman Maniple/Chequer Board system to work. At last! Now all we need, well, me at any rate, is for Warlord to extend their Roman range into the Republican era (HINT, HINT)

[Jammybee]

What do think of these ratings for Republic Romans?Hastati/Principes  - Standard legionaire minus testudoTriarii - Heavy w/ longspearVelites - standard sized skirmishers with 6+ morale (shield)Equites - Heavy cavalry I thought these might be a bit generous to the hastati and equites, but rating them as medium seems wrong. Maniple wise - Maybe a rule allowing supporting maniple units to stand instead of falling back if the unit in combat retreats?

[BigMike]

Sounds good - I think i would drop the morale save on the Hastatii/Principes to reflect their relative lack of armour,especially the hastatii.  If you look through the rulebook at the common troop types and try to match the equipment i think that's the best way of doing it. I know it's a morale save as well, but i think that should count armour too! I certainly wouldn't have the cavalry as heavy, from my understanding of it native Roman cavalry was poor quality at best, and certainly wasn't heavily armoured or well disciplined enough to count as heavy - I'd look at medium at best, with perhaps enhanced fighting stats to take into account any mounted allies in the army.i totally agree about the maniple rule, i think that would be standard tactical doctrine for a republican army and would be best reflected as an additional action they can make on initiative.OK?

[Jammybee]

Thanks , I think I will drop the Hastati down to 5+ morale but keep them as heavy (large shield). The cavalry should probably be medium then, This was my original thought but then I saw the picture of the roman cavalryman next to the Heavy cavalry description.