Sir John Clotworthy's colours

[gregtr6]

Hi guys,I'm new to the whole ECW period, normally wargaming Alexander's persian wars, but have decided to take the plunge and swap one pike army for another!I wanted to build an army that was a little different, so have decided to model the wars in Ireland. My starting plan is to have Monro's 3 initial regiments of Scots sent in 1642 (I like the idea of almost rogue, penal units!) and alongside them, Sir John Clotworthy's and Lord Conway's raised regiments in Ulster (these being raised in 1642 alongside the arrival of the Scots).My question is, does anyone have any idea what Clotworthy or Conway's colours would have looked like? As Irish raised units, they may have had a variation on a gyronny patterned flag, as seems to have been normal for the other counties, but as Ulster was nominally under control of the Scots what colour any such flag would have been I can't find out. The closest I have come is a reference to Sir Henry Tichbourne's regiment's colours as being 'Ash and red'.If any body can help, I'd be very grateful!ThanksGreg

[John at Warlord Games]

Greg, sorry mate , no idea,, have , in my ignorance  not even heard of Cotworthy  great name!!! Hmm anyone else here can help this fellah out?? john s

[westwaller]

Greg,Nothing found on Clotworthy's colours I am afraid but I did a quick googleon the subject and found out that a lieutentant Hugh Campbell and a Cornet Jackson were in his Horse. It was mentioned on someones famliy history site.Peachy & Prince's Flags and Colours #1: English Foot mentions the army sent to Ireland under Strafford in 1640 and indeed mentions Tichbournes as Ash and Red. There are a few other regts mentioned but they only have the colours of the colours mentioned- it talks about the possibility of stripes OR the gyronny system for their flags.reference is made to partizan press's publication, 'An English Army for Ireland', so you could check that out.sorry I could not be of more help,Westwaller.

[TheGreatMarquis]

Greg,I have also been unable to find anything on Clotworthy or Conway's colours. Be wary of the "English" tag though. On the scotwars website the two regiments are described as English but raised in Co Antrim, which I think means raised from English settler families, as opposed to Irish or for that matter Scots.None of the books I have on Civil War colours deals with Ireland, unfortunately. Maybe there's a need there Partizan Press couls address? Sorry I can't help any further.Rob,

[BigMike]

Might also be worth searching the database at Pen and Sword publishing - they do a load of 17th century military history books.

[Greg]

Hi Guys,I have the Claiver book 'An English Army for Ireland' - this has been my source book to date and it was this book that referred to Clotworthy and Conway as being 'a prominant MP and Secretary of State and Marshal of Ireland (respectively) appointed to command the two regiments'. Certainly, these regiments seem to have been raised in Ireland from Anglo-Irish Ulster settlers. Appreciate finding info on their colours is problematic, but thanks for the efforts. I might just have to go with a wild guess and trust to no one out there knowing any better than I do! Thanks again - I'll try and post some pics once I've finished the army.CheersGreg

[Cubster]

Well, here's Clotworthy's personal heraldry, the crown would presumably have been added when he was made Viscount Massereene. Perhaps we could guess a gold and blue regimental colour then? Lord Conway would presumably have been Sir Edward Conway, 2nd Viscount Conway, 2nd Viscount Killultagh, who died in 1655. Sorry, I can't find anything for him, other than a modern generic Conway coat of arms, which suggests a black and white combination, but who knows how much you can trust this to be accurate for four hundred odd years ago?.