Some ACW list help?

[GVose]

Hello folks,

I don't want to derail the other ACW thread so I am starting this one. My ACW gaming group consists of 6 or so players and a total of 7 brigades (3 union infantry, 1 union cav, 2 confederate infantry and 1 confederate cav). Yes, we need a bit more for both sides.

I'm trying to figure out the special rules we'll use most of the time and what size certain units (cav dismounts) should be.

I have the union cav and pretty much have them mount and dismount for free, marauder, and sharpshooter. When they dismount, should they be skirmishers as well? Should they have skirmish on horseback? Does that even work?

I have a question about unit size for cav. We've been playing with 12 model standard sized units. When they dismount, they should have (depending on who you talk to) either 8 or 9 dismounts. This is much smaller than a standard infantry regiment so do they go from being a standard cav unit to a small infantry unit (thus losing a shooting die and always fire 1 instead of 2 like the template says? Or is that 2 in the template already taking into account the loss of 1 die since infantry has 3 dice normally?

I'm guessing that the confederate cav should be pretty much the same as the union cav above. How about the infantry from the two sides? Should they just be vanilla? Should run of the mill infantry have anything special at all?

Thanks,

Greg

[Colonel White]

I am not an expert on this era but it was my introduction into wargaming many years ago using Airfix plastics.

You don't indicate what scale of figs you are using. If you are playing with 28's with 6 players, then that sounds to me you will have large boards and big battles. Black Powder would then be worth having a look as there are many guys on this site already using the ruleset and therefore if you need any help with the rules etc there will be always someone able to answer your query, indeed the author Rick Priestly as also answered a few queries on this forum in the past.

Whatever ruleset you decide to choose this will probably dictate the size of units you will be using.

As regards the cavalry I would have more Confederate as they had better horsemen and were far superior to the Union Cavalry certainly until late into the war. To compensate I would have more Union Artillery representing the big industrialisation of the North.

Just my thoughts

[GVose]

Sorry, Colonel White. I guess I wasn't clear. I figured that since I am posting in the Black Powder forum talking about brigades that we have, games we have played and asking about special rules for those brigades that it was understood we were already playing Black Powder. Our boards aren't particularly large. Generally we are working with 6 x 8 or 6 x 12. Last Sunday it was a 4 x 12 and we all agreed that it was too narrow. We've had 8 or so Black Powder games for ACW thus far and maybe 5 Napoleonic games.

As for the scale, we're playing with Perry Brothers 28s.

I'm well aware that there are people here who can answer my questions about Black Powder. That's why I posted my questions here.

Confederate cav only outclassed Union cave until about the mid-point of the war, Brandy Station to be precise. I'm not certain that the Confederate troops should be greater in number, just different in quality (which is, once again, one of my questions above).

Guns are one of our problems. The Confederate players simply have more gun models (and are using them). If we represent a battery of 4 confederate guns as 1 gun model then what do we do with the 6 guns of a union battery? We've got players using two guns and when you place those side by side, they can do an awful lot of damage (enough to evaporate a regiment in a single turn).

[Colonel White]

I am only guessing here but I would use dismounted cavalry as skirmishers as they did scouting duities as one of their primary functions. If the rules allow it I would classify all ACW cavalry as skirmishers for the very reason I have already stated.

I think the Confederates had more cavalry certainly in the earlier part of the war as the cavalry in the union army was the poor relation and cetrainly didn't rise to the occasion until I think General Sheridan appeared on the scene.

I do think you will need to make the armies slightly differnt if possible to avoid having armies that just cancel each other out resulting in stalemates. WE are having this problem with our Nap armies at the club resulting in I have to say it boring games were artillery duals and cavalry just cancel each other out.

Good luck and I am quite sure you will get your queries answered by guys who know the rules better than me.

[Centurio Marcus T]

Knowing not too much about the rules that are being played i will say that in reality when cavalry dismounted to fight on foot there numbers were cut by 25%. This is because 1 man in four had to hold their companions mounts. Thus cutting back their fire power by a quarter so rules really should allow for this. Remember noone to hold horses ,no way to escape!!!!!

Cheers Marcus

[BigMike]

I agree with your point about horse holders, but would being on foot as opposed to horseback make loading and firing easier and faster and compensate for the relative lack of shooters?

[GVose]

Dismounting does make it easier to load and fire etc. Mounted Infantry (ACW Cav) get 1 die of shooting while mounted (regardless of formation). Dismounted, they get 2 dice of shooting. My question is, when they dismount they become less than half the size of a 'standard' infantry regiment. Does this make them 'small?' Is that 2 dice of shooting already taking into account the -1 shooting modifier for being 'small' or do they lose another die?

Currently, here is the line I am looking at for just general ACW cav.

Mounted: 5 dice in melee, 1 die shooting, skirmisher, marauder, sharpshooter (per the template) and mount/dismount for free

Dismounted: 4 dice in melee, 2 dice shooting, skirmisher, marauder, sharpshooter and mount/dismount for free

The effect of this on the game is that cav (mounted or dismounted) will be harder to hit because they skirmish. They will get a +1 to hit regardless of the range they shoot at, they can operate at any distance from their commander without a modifier to their command rating, and they can re-roll one die of shooting per turn. That sounds pretty much like ACW cav to me.

Odd units of cav might get additional rules. For example, the Michigan Brigade under Custer might have Determined Charge while mounted(required to charge if a target is chargable, yes this is a detriment) and possibly a +1 combat resolution as if heavy cav.

I'm still trying to figure out how to rate the infantry. I think that we need to rate some units differently as right now, everything we have is vanilla and the battle gets real predictable. I'm wondering if whole brigades should have a particular special rule (say Reliable and Elite allowing a +1 command and remove disorder on a die roll of say 4+) or if there should be a mixture of rules at the regiment level (so I have 1 regiment with reliable and elite, another regiment with just reliable, a third regiment with nothing and a fourth regiment as freshly raised)?

Maybe this better explains what I am looking for.

[Pickedon]

I have played a number of excellent ACW games using Black Powder using the following special rules

Rebel Yell!, same as Terrifying Charge just renamed for the period. Most reb units get this.

Seeing the Elephant, same as Freshly Raised. About half of the Union regiments units get this.

Cavalry dismounts and fights as skirmishers Union get 3 dice Rebs 2 to cover Union troops having breechloaders or better. Mounted rebs get 6 dice mounted for better elan.

All Reb guns are standard smoothbore. Union rifle batteries fire using the Field gun-howitzer rules

Using the above gives the rebs a bonus for being aggressive while the Union is more cautious.

I play on a 8X5 table with 2/3 reduction to all distances, 12 to 15 regiments a side

[Centurio Marcus T]

Yes i agree thst dismounted cavalry would be more accurate with there carbines, but would be nowhere near as well drilled as infantry in formation and volley fire. Therefore they really are only skirmishers on foot and would be more comfortable fighting on horse back. Also the infantry had riflles with longer barrels(longer range) and i think would have better disciplined on foot than would have the cavalry of the civil war period .Although if not for the cavalry slowing down the Confederates at Gettysburg then the battle may well of gone the other way and the south would have won the decisive battle they so wanted.So i suppose you could have a unit of veteran cavalry who were well drilled with infantry type tactics and adjust the rules to suit. But really a well organized disciplined infantry unit should be able to over come a dismounted cavalry unit on foot with ease. Cavalry skirmishers would i feel have used hit and run tactics. Shoot , mount up , dismount and shoot .

[Guest]

Hi just reading all your comments on cavalry and artillery, having just played our 1st battle of Black powder tonight using 10mm adler figures by the way, plus i have always had an interest in the ACW, the union cavalry always fought as skirmish cavalry and would dismount to engage the enemy, only rarely would cavalry charge infantry as the infantry line would always out shoot the cavarly charge making it suicide to charge frontaly. as for firepower the cavalry were armed by mid 63 with sharpes carbines giving a shorter range but greater fire power so skirmish cav should get 3 dice to the confederates 2 but the confederates should have a higher morale of 3+, as for 6 gun batteries vs the 4 gun batteries either give the union 1 dice more say 4/3/2 or give them stamina 3 or give both.the great thing about black powder is the endless variations you can do with the army lists, from having Jackson leading the stonewall brigade to having the paranoid McCellan leading his army of the Potomac on the Peninsular campaign, equal sides don't really come into it, the confederates were used to being outnumbered!!!!