Sample Army Lists for Napoleonics

[Guest]

Hi All,

I've already put this on the Black Powder Yahoo Group, but I thought I'd see if I can get feedback here as well.

I've been fiddling about with an army list system for Napoleonics which allows non-experts to field a remotely historical list without it being scenario based as this (at the moment) suits how our club plays - we dabble in lots of systems and periods. So far I've knocked up British and French.

A couple of points:

• I'm not an expert, I have an interest in the period, not a degree. If things are incorrect, need adjusting or improving, let me know.
• My main source is the order of battle from Waterloo (and a bit of reading I've done on the peninsula) so any further information on organisation at other times would be very welcome.
• They're meant to be simple lists for pick up games to give roughly equal armies.
• I've deliberately ignored Guards Regiments as I feel I need to read up on the French Guards organisation before I do this, and I didn't want to give Blighty an unfair advantage.
• I intend to add Allies later.
• Points are worked out according to the rules in the book.
• I'm beginning down the road of encouraging my club mates to play this period, so these are untested lists. If you give them a go, let me know how they work.

The British Army

British Infantry Brigades (At least 1 per army)

British Line Brigade (2-4 units + atillery)
2-4 British Line Infantry Battalions - 37 points
0-1 British Rifle Detachment (Tiny) - 16 points OR British Light Infantry Battalion - 37 points
0-1 British Field Artillery Battery - 27 points

British Light Brigade (0-2 per army, 2-4 units + atillery)
0-4 British Light Infantry Battalions - 37 points
0-2 British Rifle Battalions (first unit chosen must be Small) - Small: 34 points, Standard: 43 points
0-1 British Field Artillery Battery - 27 points

King's German Legion Brigade (0-2 per army, 2-4 units + atillery)
2-4 British Line Infantry Battalions - 37 points
0-2 British Light Infantry Battalions (0-2 per army) - 37 points
0-1 British Field Artillery Battery - 27 points OR British Horse Artillery Battery - 28 points

British Cavalry Brigades (You may include 1 Cavalry Brigade for every 2 British Infantry Brigades in the army.)

British Heavy Cavalry Brigade (2-3 units + atillery)
2-3 British Dragoon Regiments - 49 points
0-1 British Horse Artillery Battery - 28 points OR British Rocket Battery (0-1 per army) - 28 points

British Light Cavalry Brigade (2-3 units + atillery)
0-3 British Light Cavalry Regiments - 41 points
0-3 King's German Legion Light Cavalry Regiments (cannot exceed the number of British Light Cavalry Regiments) - 41 points
0-1 British Horse Artillery Battery - 28 points OR British Rocket Battery (0-1 per army) - 28 points

Army Special Rules:
All Infantry have the Form Square and Mixed Formation
All British Infantry have the First Fire! rule.
British Light Infantry have the Line Infantry profile with the addition of the Skirmishers rules.
All British Cavalry (except K.G.L. Cavalry) suffers a –2 Command penalty when returning to the table.
British Rocket Batteries have the same profile as Horse Artillery, but are armed with rockets (obviously).
Any British Infantry may be upgraded to Veteran (gain the Reliable and Elite 4+ special rules) at a cost of +10 points.

The French Army

French Infantry Brigades (At least 1 per army)

French Line Brigade (2-6 units + atillery)
0-6 French Ligne Battalions - 36 points
0-4 French Legere Battalions (1 per 4 Ligne Battalions in the army) - 36 points
0-1 French Foot Artillery Battery - 27 points

French Cavalry Brigades (You may include 1 Cavalry Brigade for every 2 French Infantry Brigades in the army.)

French Cuirassier/Caribinier Brigade (2 units + atillery)
2 French Cuirassier Regiments - 58 points
0-1 French Horse Artillery Battery (1 per 2 cavalry brigades) - 28 points

French Dragoon Brigade (2 units + atillery)
2 French Dragoon Regiments - 44 points
0-1 French Horse Artillery Battery (1 per 2 cavalry brigades) - 28 points

French Light Cavalry Brigade (2 units + atillery)
2 French Light Cavalry Regiments - 41 points
0-1 French Horse Artillery Battery (1 per 2 cavalry brigades) - 28 points

French Lancer Brigade (2 units + atillery)
2 French Lancer Regiments - 46 points
0-1 French Horse Artillery Battery (1 per 2 cavalry brigades) - 28 points

Army Special Rules:
All Infantry have the Form Square and Mixed Formation
Any French Unit may be upgraded to Veteran (gain the Reliable and Elite 4+ special rules) at a cost of +10 points.
Any French Infantry may be downgraded to Conscript (gain the Untested special rule) for no change in points.
French Legere Infantry have the profile of Line Infantry with the Skirmishers special rule.

Give them a read or a try and let me know what you think - they're a work in progress.

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

Looks pretty good. A couple of questions/points:

1. British Line Brigade - I think I'd go for the rifle detachment as 'small' as per the scenario in the rulebook.

2. I presume you are going for one gun model per battery?

3. In the Peninsular from 1810 onwards you'd want to add one or more Portuguese brigades, typically with 4 Portuguese line battalions and a Cacadores (light) battalion. Some of the field artillery would typically also be Portuguese.

4. French cuirassiers, lancers and British rockets would not normally appear in the Peninsular (specifics: (1) cuirassiers served in provisional regiments from 1808 until converged into the 13th Cuirassiers which served under Suchet on the East Coast of Spain; (2) a regiment of lancers of the Vistula Legion was famously present at Albuera; (3) rockets were used once in Southern France in 1814.)

There are obvously lots of flavour units one can add ...

Regards

Edward

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

As a counterpoint to the generic lists above I played around with a 'historical' Peninsular Army List (without points) based on part of the action at Fuentes d'Onoro on 5 May 1812 to show what seems able be done with BP.

Note that I have only used some of the cavalry present on the relevant flank and have treated the British 7th Division as a whole - in the action two of its battalions were ejected from a village by Marchand's division and had to rejoin the rest of the division.

Details are drawn from vol IV of Oman. Figures x+y are officers + other ranks from the strength returns. I haven't filled in all the attributes as these will largely accord with those given in BP itself.

5 May 1811 before Fuentes D’Onoro

Marchand’s Division[1] (reinforced)

Maucune’s Bde

6e Legere (1er, 2e, 4e bns) 43+1202 }

69e Ligne (1er, 2e, 4e bns) 54+1537 }

Cheminau’s Bde } average 489/bn = 36 figs

39e Ligne (1er, 2e, 4e bns) 53+1286 }

76e Ligne (1er, 2e, 4e bns) 64+1633 }

Attached

Foot artillery battery, possibly 4-6 x 6/8 pdr, 2 howitzers[2]

Lamotte’s Light Cavalry brigade

3^e Hussars 12+152 } each small 12 figures

15^e Chasseurs a Cheval 13+157 }

Cavrois’ Dragoon Brigade

3e Dragoons 12+81 }

10e Dragoons 12+126 } each small 12 figures

15e Dragoons 11+219 }

= General, 4 brigades, 12 x 36 fig bns, 5 x 12 fig [small] cavalry regiments, 3 guns, 1 howitzer

7^th Division (Houston)

Sontag’s Brigade

2/51^st 39+551 }

85^th (light infantry) 22+365 } average 488/bn = 32/36 figs/bn

Chasseurs Britannique 31+808 - 2 wings each 32 figures

8 coys Brunswick Oels 32+561 - 2 small wings of 24 figures (skirmishers)

Doyle’s Portuguese Brigade[3]

2 bns, 7^th Line 713 } average 434/bn = 32 figures

2 bns, 19^th Line 1026 }

2^nd Cacadores (light infantry) 442 = ~32 figures

Attached:

Portuguese battery? six 6pdr guns[4]

Slade’s Cavalry Brigade

1^st Dragoons 24+364 = 24 figures

14^th Light Dragoons 25+353 = 24 figures

= General, 3 brigades, 7 x 32 fig bns (one skirmish capable), 2 x 24 fig [small] ‘battalions’, 2 x 24 fig [large] cavalry regiments[5], 3 guns

---

[1] Marchand's division was at the time in the French 6e Corps. For those who might be interested by 15 July 1811 (when Oman gives the next strength returns) the division was the 2^nd in the Army of Portugal - the Corps structure had been dropped - and was commanded by Foy with the same regiments present.

[2] At Fuentes D’Onoro only 5 batteries were fielded by Massena because of lack of teams with 38 guns total including a horse battery with Montbrun; Oman gives 6^e Corps (Marchand, Mermet and Ferey) 14 guns presumably a battery of 6 and a battery of 8?

[3] Previously 6^th (independent) Portugues Brigade which was under the command of Coleman at Busaco in 1810 - the rest of 7th Division was new to the theatre, so none would be Veteran (the Chasseurs Britanniques had seen a lot of service but had hgh desertion rates - though they performed well at Fuentes; the Oels came to have a poor desertion record as well).

[4] Note that 7th Division do not actually seem to have had a battery attached for the action but for game purposes it would make sense to give them one. Apart from the 2 RHA troops the batteries present at Fuentes were apparently Lawson and Thompson (RA) and the Portuguese batteries of Von Arentschild, da Cunha and Rozierres (note that at Busaco the batteries of de Rozierres, da Cunha Preto, da Silva and Freira were present).

[5] Alternatively these could be shown as 4 small ‘wings’ of 12 figures although this would probably disrupt the squadron organisation.

Regards

Edward

[Colonel White]

I think any list obtained from the orders of battle should work.

The way I picked mine was i picked up a pin and shut my eyes and placed in pin into the Britsh orders of battle for 1812/3.

The division I ended up picking or should I say pricking( chorus of groans in the background I hear) was Picton's 3rd Divsion . This is now 1/3 complete and 2/3rds painted and has been a joy to paint,build and research.

I organised it on the lines of the Perry's box insert and the G de B sample sizes. Admittidley it is a little large for Black Powder and I may need to make my batallions a little smaller but you are only talking about tweeking.

Just my thoughts

regards

Garth

[Guest]

kustenjaeger, thanks for the info. It will help a lot. I'm umming and arring about writing different lists for different theatres/campaigns to avoid inappropriate combos however I'm not sure whether this is overcomplicated for a generic project.

I think the word generic is absolutely appropriate for what I'm trying to do as I'm trying to encourage my club to pick up these excellent rules and they're used to points based games.

However, I hope in time to get them playing historical scenarios, but for now I've got to get them playing.

[Colonel White]

Bertolac

Good luck with your mission as you may need it.

We have a similar situation at our club. We have quite a few members who have been spoon fed points for designing armies and therfore their style of play ( I blame GW for this) is a very competive edged type game ,similar to that found in tournaments.

As Rick points out in the Black Powder rules , these rules are not competitive edged and therefore tends to suit the older end like myself who just wants an enjoyable game in good company over a few beers. With the beers being the most important part!

To be honest having played our first game at the club last night ,the randomness of events would drive a tournament type player insane!

[Rich Jones]

My only thing against 2 unit brigades for cavalry is that if at the start of a turn one is shaken which is likely then the brigade is technically broken and can do nothing really as you can't rally them back ...

[Rich Jones]

My only thing against 2 unit brigades for cavalry is that if at the start of a turn one is shaken which is likely then the brigade is technically broken and can do nothing really as you can't rally them back ...

[grant]

Just wondering about numbers of figures:"= General, 4 brigades, 12 x 36 fig bns, 5 x 12 fig [small] cavalry regiments, 3 guns, 1 howitzer""= General, 3 brigades, 7 x 32 fig bns (one skirmish capable), 2 x 24 fig [small] ‘battalions’, 2 x 24 fig [large] cavalry regiments[5], 3 guns"Are people REALLY playing with this many figures, in 28mm?How much space is being used to fit all those minis in?My local shop finally got in Victrix and Perry, and we are all gung-ho to get into Black Powder, but I cannot see myself (or anyone else) buying, painting and playing with 300ish figure armies! I mean, my Night Goblins for Fantasy are in the 150 range, and they took me two years to get ready. I just set a personal record by building and painting a Skaven army in one month, using Army Painter, but that was only 150ish minis too.Any advice or commentary would be greatly appreciated.

[Guest]

I have regular units of 16-20 foot, 10 cavalry.

I've had people comment on the small size of my units, but I'm not a quick painter and I don't have an unlimited budget for my hobbies. These unit sizes work fine for me, and the game, and allow to you space to manoeuvre on a standard 6x4 board.