Cat amongst the pigeons - forming hedgehog!

[Jammers]

Unless, of course, you can't charge the pike because the shotte are in the way

Its still a Test on 7 or 8s and if you want your combat troops stuck behind the line ..

[sane max]

The change to the supporting charge rule is the most important mechanism alteration I have seen so far - and as a relative novice would like to ask what it represents? Less manoueverable and controllable armies generally? or is it just because you like annoying people who play all three by making each set of rules slightly different?

I remember a period when I was playing WAB ECW, WAB and Warhammer Fantasy all; the time, in each of which Pike, Pistols, Lances and Handguns were treated differently. Oh the Fun we had.... not.

Pat

[SteveMorgan]

Hi Pat

That certainly would be sinister; but you never know as we have to get our kicks somehow
Actually there were a couple of key considerations for this rule. The first, as you rightly pointed out, was to emphasise the unwieldy nature of armies at the time, trying to co-ordinate attacks was a tricky thing.
The other was to reinforce the benefit of keeping the musket elements with the pike as it guarantees supports (this was instead of adding rules about sleeves shooting as troops close on the pike, which was a bit messy and didn't feel like Black Powder).
In initial test games (and also BP) there was also the loose interpretation of 'this battalia will charge all those troops over there', and the result was a perfectly executed charge with exactly the right troops lined up with perfectly formed support, which just seemed wrong. Such orders now could have cavalry going into pike and a completely unsupported attack. Rick stressed to me the importance of the order giving as a key facet of the game and I hope this rule highlights this.
Cheers

Steve

[Jammers]

We may end up with very Napoleonic type tactics with Cavalry forcing immobile Hedgehogs and then light guns, supported by infantry, blasting the beejasus out of it

I would have liked to have seen Hedgehogs being able to retire to its rear half a move, possibly risk getting Disordered if it did so

[SteveMorgan]

I'm thinking Newcastle's Whitecoats and getting all teary-eyed.

If you introduce the ability of hedgehogs to retreat as a house rule, I would recommend also removing the rules where they ignore retreat results from break test as that is reliant on them being immoveable (which is why we didn't allow this, as we wanted heroic last stands such as at Marston Moor).

Cheers

Steve

[Jammers]

I'm thinking Newcastle's Whitecoats and getting all teary-eyed. ..

The exception rather than the rule methinks.

[sane max]

I'm thinking Newcastle's Whitecoats and getting all teary-eyed

Serves the buggers right. What did they think they would get in return for being shotttte to deathhhe? A Plaque?

it was the ECW - if they had surrendered they would have probably been home in time for a stotty cake and a canny bag of Tudor Crisps.

Pat

[red]

I think you underestimate the ability of the British infantryman to stand in the face of the enemy.
You are talking about the precursor of the Thin Red Line and descendants of the Saxon Shield Wall.
We generally leave the running bit to Johnny Foreigner.

[jazbo]

"The other was to reinforce the benefit of keeping the musket elements with the pike as it guarantees supports"

This line puzzles me. A major change seems to be a charging unit is given a seperate order to a supporting unit. So, you actually have MORE chance of the pikes going in and then the musketeers standing up to 18" away watching, than in normal BP where that order to charge and support would be one.

As far as I can see, you have more chance of disjointed Regiments not supporting, so although there is an obvious benefit, the reality is I feel that a lot of games will see the pikes and shot split up quite a bit, which seems...wrong.

[soldieroftheline]

Only if you take the risk of ordering a charge from 18" away. If you close steadily until you can charge and support on initiative, hopefully against an enemy weakened and disordered by your shooting, then you'll keep the pike and shot together. No doubt I'll be accused of being too cautious as usual (!) but those were the tactics of the time.

Rob