Disordered by obstacles

[Bernard Stuart]

I see on Page 41 that some troops can be disordered by crossing obstacles. Fine, good idea. The trouble is that we have played a lot of Black Powder where you take off your own disorder markers at end of your own turn. I assume that the disorder from obstacles actually is meant to last into the next turn as well, so that it has some effect, as mentioned on P50. Is this what people think happens?

So there is a small matter of remembering which disorder markers come off when.

Normally we have used a small red counter to indicate disorder, so I am thinking that actually putting down 2 counters for obstacle disorder would work, and then you would still remove one at the end of your turn.

BS

[Big Al]

That sounds like a good idea to me. Alternatively, a different coloured marker.

[Eumerin]

It's possible. Alternately, the intent might be to just make it more difficult for the unit to cross those obstacles and engage in combat immediately afterwards. I haven't seen the Pike and Shotte rules (my FLGS doesn't doesn't have a copy of the rules for me to skim through), so it's possible that this doesn't apply. But Hail Caesar applies negative modifiers for Disorder when a unit shoots or engages in melee combat, and I would imagine that Pike and Shotte does something similar.

[Bernard Stuart]

Good point. PAS does apply -1 to shooting and melee hit scores. However there is another point which I had not noticed, and that is that a disordered unit is forbidden to charge, so you could have the situation that you have given a unit an order to charge across rough ground, and then that unit rolls a 6 to become disordered during movement. Are you still allowed to complete the charge? Do you stop short? Or perhaps you complete the charge but have to fight at -1?

Conversely if your pikes charge against an enemy behind a hedge, they do not cross it to fight, so there is no danger of becoming disordered.

The real lesson would be not to order your your pike block to charge across a muddy field!

[Alan Charlesworth]

Page 50 says that you remove Disorder at the end of your following turn. This means that if you receive Disorder in your opponents turn then it stays with you for your turn and comes off at the end. If however, you receive the disorder in your own turn it comes off at the end of your next turn. This was the way Steve Morgan played it at the demo game I took part in.

As you say you need a way to keep track of that.

With regard to a Charge becoming Disordered by terrain. I would regard the Disorder as applying at the end of the move. So the charge goes in but the attacker fights Disorded.

[Bernard Stuart]

Yes, that is how I would play it. The disordered attackers then fight at -1, and also take any break tests at -1. So they quite likely to be repulsed. Serve them right.

[trevor allen]

Page 50 says that you remove Disorder at the end of your following turn. This means that if you receive Disorder in your opponents turn then it stays with you for your turn and comes off at the end. If however, you receive the disorder in your own turn it comes off at the end of your next turn. This was the way Steve Morgan played it at the demo game I took part in.

As you say you need a way to keep track of that.

With regard to a Charge becoming Disordered by terrain. I would regard the Disorder as applying at the end of the move. So the charge goes in but the attacker fights Disorded.

This actually shows that the rule writer had it covered all along, and we players just need to read the manual a little better.

[jazbo]

"If however, you receive the disorder in your own turn it comes off at the end of your next turn. This was the way Steve Morgan played it at the demo game I took part in."

This is interesting. In the original BP it turned out (after the Perries did it) that people were told to take them off at the end of your turn, even if caused in your current turn.

"However, watching the Perry’s demonstrate the game recently we noticed that they always removed the disordered
markers at the end of the player’s turn regardless of when the disorder was inflicted."

The use of "next" turn implies this is officially different in P&S? Could I get a clarification on that please Steve?

[SteveMorgan]

Hi
Just to clarify, the disorder comes off at the end of the following turn; a unit cannot become disordered and recover from disorder in the same turn (so it is generally very bad getting disordered in your own turn).
Chargers that become disordered due to obstacles react in the same way as chargers disordered from closing fire, they get to complete the charge but will fight disordered (and will not be able to remove the disorder while in combat).
Hope this helps
Steve