Ancient Greek Hoplites

[mobal]

the new sprue with the special Spartan bits. indeed the had look a likes but as i have said before they don't fit. And i don't know how to make them fit if it is a had.

edit: i don't have a guide with my greeks or spartans and i was thinking about cutting the helmet but was a bt afraid to do and losing a head.

[Cubster]

There should be bald heads in there somewhere, I'm sure there were some for the other sets. If they have indeed put hats in without bald heads that's sounds like a cock-up to me.

[mobal]

in each hoplite sprua is 1 head without helmet. I tried to fit it but it just looking weird to me, probably i leave the hads in the sprue en do nothing with it. Thanks for the help guys.

[Big Al]

Give it a go. The plastic's soft enough and a sharp knife should do it. Just gently pare the plastic away. There are enough additional heads in the box to cover any mistakes, even if it means you utilise a couple of Corinthian helmets. That shouldn't worry you seeing as you are prepared to use the alternative headgear.

@Cubster - Looking at the photos of the sprues on the link I posted, I couldn't see any bald heads. I don't remember any on the basic Hoplite sprues that I had either.

[Cubster]

I had some bald heads on the sprues I had, but I gave what I had left over to my brother, so don't have them any more.

[phn104]

The Dyplon shields would only really be used for older hoplites (ei. pre-persian wars) and possibly for some slightly slow/backward city states, maybe for Thespians (who were also at the Hot Gates). The metal half circle part is a groin protection and is meant to go with the bell shaped muscle tors/body (you get one of them on each big sprue). The apron thing is to be hung from shields as protection against arrows and javelins as more missile infantry was encountered during Peloponessian Wars.

As far as Spartan/Classical add-on frame, I agree, they dont perfectly all go with bodies as most heads have short hair. I always imagines Spartans with long hair so I used green stuff to attach spartan heads to the long hair bodies and use a scalpel to draw some hair lines in the green stuff so it looks like they go together. Alternative is to use a scalpel to get rid of the hair from the neck on the body and then attach a spartan head.

Long hair Spartans are probably more accurate though. Also I would advise using Corynthian helmets(other than some command figures)as these are outdated for the period the Spartan sprue represents.

[phn104]

Ups, I made a mistake... I meant to say this in the last sentence:


Long hair Spartans are probably more accurate though. Also I would advise [!against!] using Corynthian helmets(other than some command figures)as these are outdated for the period the Spartan sprue represents.

The hats are meant for the Classical set so they don't fit on any Spartan or other heads if you do not have that box- my guess is they had spare space so they just left the hats there anyway.

[clivethecelt]

There were bald heads in the old IM "Ancient Greek" boxed set, but there were none in the "Classical" or "Spartan" set, excepting the musician. The hats look like one each of a petasos felt hat, a pilos felt hat, a Boeotian helmet and possibly a petasos helmet; the heads look like older blokes, so maybe the hats are just a carry over, as you say, phn104, filling space. Maybe Steve May can be called upon to give an opinion?

I've dug around and found the booklet from the "Classical Greek" IM boxed set, where it describes the petasos as a "wide brimmed felt hat ... normally worn by lightly equipped infantry and cavalry ... common in Thessaly and Boeotia. As with the Pilos type of felt hat, it is likely that hoplites in the rear ranks and those fighting unarmoured coul" - and that's where it stops! The booklet from the "Spartan" box just has an overview of the Pilos helmet, not the felt cap. The "Ancient Greek" booklet mentions the Boeotian helmet, but doesn't go into great detail. There are pics of all the hat types within Nick Sekunda's Osprey Elite "The Ancient Greeks"; the petasos felt hat and metal helmet and the Boeotian helmet shown being used by the cavalry.

Paul's "groin protectors" (Did you ever watch "Call My Bluff"? Maybe there's potential for a "bit of armour" version) are face masks to go with the Phrygian helmets, according to the booklet. Or Frank Muir. Or Arthur Marshall ...

[wargame_insomniac]

I have got the "Classical Greek" IM boxed set- it does look as if they text was cropped short- I don't know how much text we are missing. It was helpful to me as newcomer to period to learn more about the various helmets.

The Boeotian helmet were mainly used by the cavalry. IIRC Alexander followed Xenophon's advice and adopted the Boeotian helmet for his Companions. The new Victrix Theban Hoplites box set does have Hoplites with Boeotian helmet- not sure how common they were for infantry.

I associate the Petasos felt hat with Thessalians. Certainly WG have used them for both Thessalian cavalry and Peltasts. Other than that I tend to think of them as for poorer Greek states such as Aetlolians and Acarnians. I can see Greek shepherds wearing them whilst working and then hanging onto them whilst serving as Psiloi. Have nt seen them on any other cavalry other than Thessalians though.

Cheers

James

[phn104]

Yes, I agree Pesthos hat is often portrayed worn by Thesallians. I think it is similar to the phrygian hat in that it started out as a hat made of some sort of wool which inspired the shape of the metal equivalent phrygian helmets so I think it wouldn't be a huge error to paint the pesthos hat in a metallic colour using that logic.

As for groin protection- the very first plastic hoplite set released was the basic big sprue with a command set (commander + musician). There was no Phrygian helmet and before the IM website was pulled down it even had a picture of that half-cricle groin protector worn with the bell cuirass. It was there because the set allowed for creation of an older style armour (more archaic period than classical). This is not a great example since it is not the same shape but you can see it in this picture:



I can probably dig through some books and do some scans if you guys want more examples but I am positive this is groin protection. Here is a re-enactment photo of an early hoplite: