Unit sizes

[Jammybee]

Hi, as a great fan of BP I am really looking forward to HC and have started planning an army. what size unit do people think a roman maniple (120 men) would be? Individual small units, or amalgamated into fewer larger units for the purposes of the game? Can't wait for the book!

[Big Al]

I always work to 20 men per figure. So that would be 6 figures! Bit small, but you can have a full legion out there, Seriously, you have to go with what feels right. A republican Roman army is one of the most difficult to represent on the tabletop because of the tactics and unit sizes. You are probably looking at 10 or 12, but it will look tiny. In Hail Caesar, your other maniples will be there in support and it will also depend on what rule will be in there that willl allow the "Chequer Board" tacic to work. If a maniple can charge and then, after the first round, withdraw without penalty to allow another to replace it, then the size might not matter. It is a difficult question.  MAybe Rick will be kind enough to step in with a suggestion or two.

[NTM]

Either combine into larger units or make the maniple a standard unit of 24 and size everything else to suit. Use the first option for large battles and the latter for small actions.

[Shapur II]

I think it depe3nds on what you  want to represent.  Given that units are based more on frontage than the number of figures your standard unit could be a Maniple (or even a Century) with  a frontage of 24 cm and 24 figures  (2 deep 2 cm per figure)  That would provide a ratio of 1:5  (1:2.5) Great if you are looking to fight smaller, dare I say skirmish actions.   That said, I agree with Big AL that would depend on the rules and how they represent the particular tactics of the Rep Roman Legion.   I have fiddled around with this question too often to count.  Roman small unit tactics fascinate me  and finding a rule set that allows for this scale battle would be my preferance.  However as much of the details are speculative at best, I doubt that an 'accurate' model of these unit interactions can be developed.    This of course does not answer your question.  You could go with 10 units (cohorts) to a legion plus two units of Cav.  One option would be to break that down as 3 divisions first, second and third lines.  Not sure how to handle lthe cavalry though.  As Big Al stated, perhaps Rick could provide some guidance....  

[Cubster]

If 'Hail Caesar' is an ancient adaptation of the 'Black Powder' system then you're likely looking at larger rather than smaller scale actions. The 'Clash of Empires' rules from Great Escape Games are supposed to be more skirmish based and would complement HC nicely.2011 is certainly a good year for ancients gamers and I'll be looking to acquire both sets of rules.

[Jammybee]

Thanks for the input. I was thinking about small (16 figures) units. I was just wondering if this would put them at a big disadvantage against regular or large units.

[Big Al]

Not necessarily. The small units with a smaller frontage would make it difficult for a single large unit to attack on its own. If the small units are supported and not too far apart, a single large unit would, most likely, end up contacting two of your small units spreading the damage they cause and so making their attack less effective.

[Jammybee]

Good point.

[DexterWard]

Hail Caesar is a big battle set, so I wouldn't expect to see Maniples represented at all.I'd expect the smallest Roman unit to be a legion, or at least one line of a legion (Hastates, Principes or Triarii) - dunno what sort of numbers of figures - but so long as you are consistent with the two sides it doesn't really matter.  

[Jammybee]

Hi all again, I though i would resurrect this thread as I have a new question about unit sizes. Is this example correct? My hastati unit is 16 men. = Standard unit (2 deep battle line 16-20 models)My friends gaul warband is 40 men = Standard unit (4 deep battle line 32-40 models) So the gauls need almost twice the amount of models to get equal stamina etc? Thanks all.