Views on Hail Caesar supplements?

[rick priestley]

With my work on Hail Caesar at the checking, checking again, finally checking and inevitably missing 'something' stage I'm starting to get together the first supplements. We have a few proposals - and I'd be glad of a few more:) - but before getting stuck in I'd welcome suggestions and ideas. Not just for themes or historical sub-periods along the lines of the Warhammer Ancient Battles (WAB) supplements - but what kinds of supplements? Army lists... collecting and modelling by army.. campaigns... sieges...battle reports... lots of piccies... or what? And WAB style supplements if you like. Because the WAB style supplements set the bench mark for this kind of thing it's hard to think of gaming supplements that don't have that mix of history, rules and army lists - but there's really no reason why a supplement has to follow that same format. When the WAB supplments were conceived it was much harder to get a good overview of the subject - where nowadays you can find oodles of this kind of thing on the internet easily enough. Similarly when we started with WAB colour printing was a luxury that limited what we could show - resulting in that 'showcase' section that artifically separates the illustation form the text. So - no holds barred - what would we like to see? Rick

[Vogless]

I really like the WAB format. It gives a nice overview of the era, and enough modeling info to get you started ASAP. There's usually enough suggestions in the back for books and movies to help as well. No matter the era, I'll be a total newbie as I generally do 28mm WWII and a very tiny bit of that fantasy in space game. I've played a few games of Black Powder and love the rules. I just don't know where to start. I'll be in the same boat with HC. I'd LOVE to do some Romans vs Celts or even Dark Age gaming, but I have a very basic knowledge of the periods and the whole style of gaming for that matter. I do know I would like to see color and layout throughout like Black Powder. I also prefer hardcovers when possible. I'll be interested to hear what more experienced players would like to see.

[BigMike]

I really liked the way that the Vlad the Implaler/Age of Arthur supplements went in terms of contents - a good mix of history/modelling advice and a good colour section. with some ideas about battles 'typical of the time' - in particular all the raids and things in AoA. I know it's not really part of the BP ethos of 'reserch it yourself' but it'd be nice to see army lists laid out accompanied with a bit of history, some modelling/painting/wargaming advice, and in keeping with the BP style maybe some key facts/things of historical interest in the margins.I quite liked the way this presented in the BP book - as a series of battle reports especially if each report became long enough to give some more background to the army. As BP unit stats are more straightforward than WAB ones you could print basic units lists for each army in the relevant section and have a list of optional 'tweaks and changes' in the back of the supplement for adapting units to relect player preferences.If you're doing a supplement which covers the whole period it'd be good to include some info on how to do period seiges/make relevant scenery etc- so if I wanted to play chariot warfare and bought the book I could then play any sort of period game with most contemporary armies and had suggestions for how to build appropriate scenery.If it isn't in HC already some sort of campaign guidence would be really good in the main rulebook.  One of my favourite features of the WHECW book was the fact that it was self contained and needed no other rules to play any sort of one off game, or campaign, or seige.  I'd like to see that generic gaming information in HC so you could play straight from the main rulebook without having to wait for the Roman book, or Dark Age book or Crusades book. This information would be adjusted in the relevant supplement so the main rules covered how to play a seige game but the Chariot wars one talked about building huge ramps and sorming with ladders, and the Roman version covered siege engines and testudos and the late medieval one covered early gunpowder artillery.Good luck with your writing - Really looking forward to the finished product - and can I put a bid in for a late medieval supplement early!Mike 

[zedeyejoe]

Now I am going to disagree.When I started ancients back in the 1970's there were WRG Armies and Enemies books. All the information a wargamer needed about their army; organisation, tactics, enemies, battles fought and painting guides. So all the information I need to know about the military history of armies is already available - even without going on the internet/libarary.So how about just army lists and forget everything else? It also makes the project a lot easier.Now if someone wants to bring out army books, all power to them but it is not required for the game.

[BigMike]

but if you don't have the information already it's nice to be able to get all the stuff in one place.I agree that supplements shouldn't be necessary to play, but for me that's the strength of BP and presumably HC - If you already know the background of the period you can use the stats generator and come up with something plausable - if you don't you can buy the supplement and it's all wrapped for you!

[mattban72]

Just my thoughts; I agree that there is more information out there, but to be honest, sometimes having a book which provides a chronology and history is a great start, I have been going through this with WotR history. Being from Canada, this was not something that I grew up with some knowledge of, and while information is easy to get (with individual versions of history inherent), it took some effort to get aquainted with this time period, while others ran rings around me on the forums (and still do). WAB have some good material, but not enough BIG INSPIRING battles, armies and such.  I picked up my first version of WAB 10 yrs ago, and due to me salivating over the pics (something I had to see in magazines, not at shows like you lucky chaps in the UK)..I collected and managed to paint Assyrians (tons), skythians, greeks, late romans, huns, generic germans (for FOTW timeframe). The reason I am getting into HC is because I was inspired to do BP through the material and how it prompted my own imagination, quite something when you consider I did not do Napoleonics before BP, and now I have two 15mm armies and two 28mm armies ( obviously I am also generating income for the hobby), I am the one in Calgary who got this going in my area (there are a couple of others who have played out of Edmonton), and we have a small (but absurdely dedicated bunch who are making the transition from Flames of War to BP), while I move towards ancients....and plant seeds. Remember that Calgary has the largest game store in Western Canada....In short, I want inspiration and a solid basic introduction to subjects. I want to see massive armies and battles, and get a start on liveries....on compositions for armies...suggestions....I want my imagination to be stoked and I want the very best of the hobby to represent their work, to inspire me. Battle reports, lists......but just plain inspiration. WAB gave us a taste of this, with the Perry's Late Romans....but they left out thousands of figs....and I for one have wished I could have seen what they had.I remember my very first game 25 yrs ago (and I didn't start wargaming until 12 years later)....it was at the Sentry Box in Calgary, they invited me to play a 15mm napoleonic game, but on the way to my table in their warehouse (they were  so open by bringing in a 12 yr old boy into their warehouse to play with them, someone who didn't have the funds)......I walked by a Zulu game in 28mm.....I remember everythings I saw even now. While I charged my horses into cannons and died a quick and not so glorious death (thinking that this was unjust as well in my novice eyes)...I thought only about the Zulu's.I want to be inspired.

[zedeyejoe]

The point is, that the information (and in fact more than has been in WAB supplements) has and is available. So is it worth putting time and effort into something that is already available?In my own rules, rather than developing my own lists, I suggested people use lists which are already out there (other peoples).WAB was about making money from producing rules supplements (GW is about making money from figures). FoG and Battlefront are also big on producing supplements. If Warlord want to make money from producing supplements, fair enough. But certainly not needed by gamers. I would like to see something like the old Armies and Enemies produced again but that is a different matter.

[mattban72]

sorry, but part two of my thoughts..... Respectfully, I would ask what do you want to be remembered for?.....and I would guess that it would be to inspire and to be inspired... so inspire us as you and your group have done for 25 yrs.

[Consul Scipio]

I want this too, hardback please:

In short, I want inspiration and a solid basic introduction to subjects. I want to see massive armies and battles, and get a start on liveries….on compositions for armies…suggestions….I want my imagination to be stoked and I want the very best of the hobby to represent their work, to inspire me. Battle reports, lists……but just plain inspiration.

[mattban72]

Consul Scipio said:

I want this too, hardback please:

In short, I want inspiration and a solid basic introduction to subjects. I want to see massive armies and battles, and get a start on liveries….on compositions for armies…suggestions….I want my imagination to be stoked and I want the very best of the hobby to represent their work, to inspire me. Battle reports, lists……but just plain inspiration.

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 agreed.