multi=player games

[Father Georgi]

I ran a game of Hail ceaser yesterday; we divided commands between three players. One of the guys proceeded to fail 4 consecutive command rolls which meant that his participation in the game was limited to making saving throws. Needless to say this was not an enjoyable game for him, and he said that he will not be playing again. Admittedly he was extremely unlucky to fail 4 straight rolls ( on LD 8) but a similar thing happened to me in Black Powder where I failed 4 consecutive command rolls and may as well have stayed at home. These experiences are not unique, which makes me wonder how viable is the LD mechanism for multiplayer games?
Is the alternative to give each player two commands, thus doubling their chance of passing their rolls (Or allowing a number of re-rolls?)

[BigMike]

Well the general gets a re-roll doesn't he -if you're playing multiple players per side why not give them the option to use this re-roll where it's needed?

[Big Al]

Surely, if all he did was make saving throws, there must have been a point where his units could act on initiative? This in itself would have presented decisions for him to make as a player, how his units would react during initiative.

As far as multiplayer games go, I haven't quite experienced that much bad luck in our games. We tend to use leadership values of 8 and 7 for commanders. We have played these levels in both BP and HC. I know this doesn't help because I can't tell you anything that we might have done to overcome the problem. Of course, to just give up on a game after one try with a bad experience is not good. Hopefully, you can persuade him to give the game another try and increase the commander's leadership.

I know how it feels when the dice rolls go against you. I was playtesting a set of rules for a friend and could do nothing but roll bad dice, to the extent that my friend altered the rules. I had to remind him that it wasn't the rules that were broken, just my poor dice rolls. Needless to say, the rules weren't changed and my rolling improved

[Eumerin]

He only made saves? Does that mean that no one charged any of his units?


Initiative moves have already been mentioned as one way of getting around the Failed Command Rolls problem. Another way to deal with it is to attach your commander directly to a unit in order to move that unit out. You can't make anymore command rolls if you do that, which means that you typically only do it after you've already moved everything else. But I doubt that too many people would complain (particularly people new to the game) if you added a house rule that allowed you to automatically use it after trying and failing to move any units from your division for three or four consecutive turns.

[Sirius]

As mentioned above, the General's reroll could, under certain circumstances, have been used.

In my first game of HC (also a multi-player game with each a player taking a division) my Celtic troops blithered for 3 or 4 turns in a row due to failed command rolls, and amongst all the 7 players, no-one remembered the General's reroll rule... (well, those sneaky Romans might have remembered it, but if they did, they didnt pipe up.. )

Using the reroll could have made a big difference to our game - and I dare say it could have made a big difference to yours.

[mobal]

You can make a house rule that if your general is in 12" of the failing comander that the commander may use the reroll as in the genral shout the order again. (own leadership or genrals is up to you.)
This is only an idee that popt up when i was reading this topic so you may want to shoot it, but if you do, tel me why beacaus maybe I want to use it.

Sorry for my english.

[Big Al]

Hi Mobal

It is a good suggestion. The only thing that I can see wrong is that the General would have to be moved about quite a bit and that can be a problem in games. It might be better to have a number of reroll chits per game. The general can issue these when he deems fit, but once they're gone, they're gone. It would mean that your general wouldn't have to run around the battlefield just to give a player a reroll, leaving the place where he is needed most.

[Sirius]

And there already exists a rule for modifiers to command rolls for long distance orders...

I like some of the suggestions, but this is my suggestion (distilled from all of the above):

In a multiplayer game the general's order test reroll bonus can be used to reroll any of his sides order test rolls, not just his own order test rolls.

Still only once per turn, all distance modifiers still apply.

I will be noting that in the margins of p80...

(And I must say, the fact that, in the example above, I really struggled to get my Celts moving into battle because of failed command rolls did nothing to dampen my enthusiasm for HC. It caused great mirth amongst all the gamers, especially the Roman players, and i was subjected to ongoing accusations from the other Celt players that i had been "bought" by the Romans. Yes, my poor command rolls, added to several from the Romans, slowed the game down a fair deal, but it didnt make the game any less enjoyable. Quite the opposite.)

[Father Georgi]

Some interesting ideas . Big Al the saving throws were from being shot at by crosbows at long range of 18 so he could not have advanced on initaive . He was commanding a force of 4 stands of Swiss pike and 4 units f swiss skirmishers, his opponant had advanced his missile troops to shoot at him before retiring on iniative if need be. I am not that bothered that he won't play HC agaion- I suspect that as a DBM player, Hail Ceaser will not be his thing

I forgot all about the Follw Me order which may have made a difference

[getback]

We ran a participation game at Salute where we were concerned about this.

We gave each player two command re-roll tokens to be used at any point in the game. Everybody had a good time, if they failed a command after expending the tokens they took it really well. We also allowed players to "earn" a re-roll token if they were imaginative, or did something special in the game.

I will use this from now on if the game includes first timers.

BTW always best to give the guy who is likely to dislike the command system two commands or the CinC command, just to keep them sweet for the first couple of games. Till you get them hooked.