modern weapons

[Guest]

i have recently bought the black powder rules and on reading them, i was surprised to see that there are no factors other than ranges which reflect the greater effectiveness of bolt action weapons over muzzle loaders etc. Have i missed something or is this intentional? thanks

[Dr Dave]

I think that you might be correct. There's nothing there apart from the increased ranges.

I think that you're looking for some rate of fire (or shooting dice) increase? Quite often though the rate of fire was simply theoretical. In practise the men still fireed slow and steady - the "mad minute" may have been devastating, but it also got rid of your ammunition quite quickly!

[Last Hussar]

The biggest change was the tactics. Men didn't need to so close together as range and accuracy improved, and this loosening up was also useful to counteract the fire - men could take cover, and breach loaders meant you can lay down.

Rates of fire did go up, even firing aimed you can get a shot of every 5-6 seconds, compared to every 30 seconds with Napoleonics. People just hid more.

[Themomage]

I have just picked up the BP rules and am also wrestling with this one.  I am thinking of breech-loading weapons rather than magazine-fed bolt action ones, but the theory should hold good for both.  I am not convinced that accuracy at longer ranges was particularly wonderful (firing being typically by volley at a stated distance rather than at a target), so an increase in Shooting would not seem warranted.  But the higher rate of fire that was possible at short ranges should somehow count.  I can think of a few of options, but not having actually played the rules I don't have a good feel for how they will work in practice.  1) Shooting +1 at less than half range (i.e. close or medium).2) +1/+0/-1 firepower at close/medium/long range (similarly to artillery).  So you have a heavy effect at short ranges but may not want to waste your ammo supplies at longer ranges3) -1 Morale Die Modifier for fire at close or medium range (i.e. less than half of maximum range)These three options are probably mutually exclusive rather than additive! Thoughts from more experienced users as to how these might work are welcome.    

[jazbo]

Just give your Martini Henry's another firing dice seems reasonable? Give them the standard 3 at long range and at half or less give them 4?

[Big Al]

Something like this would be a possible solution. However, the rules are mostly about command and control, rather than the effect of weapons. Would the bolt action weapon have such a different effect on morale? This is where the rules differ from others. It isn't about the different effects of different weapons, it is more about you as commander, giving the correct orders and getting your troops to carry them out while preventing your opponent from achieving his objectives. The fine details of the various weapons and their effects are of little concern and would just cloud the issue. As a commander all you are interested in is making sure your army achieves your objectives. That is the point to the game.

[Cubster]

Something like this would be a possible solution. However, the rules are mostly about command and control, rather than the effect of weapons. Would the bolt action weapon have such a different effect on morale? This is where the rules differ from others. It isn't about the different effects of different weapons, it is more about you as commander, giving the correct orders and getting your troops to carry them out while preventing your opponent from achieving his objectives. The fine details of the various weapons and their effects are of little concern and would just cloud the issue. As a commander all you are interested in is making sure your army achieves your objectives. That is the point to the game.

Yeah, but with the best will in the world, sometimes the effect of the weapons should and did have an enormous effect on a battle. To try to game any colonial conflict without the technological advantage one side enjoyed is to ignore fact and flavour. Without the devastating physical effect of the rapid-firing Martini Henry, no 100-odd defenders would ever win against 4,000 attackers, never mind morale. In fact the Zulus were more worried about the bayonet than the bullet.

When two forces of similar weaponry face each other it's not an issue, but in Colonial gaming it most certainly is.

[HobbitMiles]

We've been playing a few games that involve both breechloading and bolt action/magazine rifles. As a house rule we allow the magazine rifles an extra die in closing fire to represent the British practice of only using the magazine as a reserve supply of ammo for emergency situations. If you look in the actual BP book it does suggest under the stats for mounted infantry that those armed with magazine rifles should receive an extra shooting die.

I've been experimenting a little with BP for the 2nd Anglo-Boer War and it is quite difficult for the Boers to halt British advances - I expected the British units to become disordered, but in practice it doesn't seem to work out like that. Once the British have located a Boer unit they can nearly always simply charge them out of their position. I'm sure that by tweeking the stats I can make it work - perhaps by uping both the firepower for the Boers and the stamina for the Brits I can get more disorder results without more outright destruction of the British units. Any thoughts?

[Cubster]

Something perhaps that recreates the pinning effect of Boer fire from cover?

[HobbitMiles]

Yes, the pinning effect is what I want. I had tried treating Boers as Irregular skirmishers but with mounted infantry stats - I tried 2 dice for shooting (with re-rolls for sharpshooters) and then uped it to 3 dice, but it just didn't seem like enough. I don't want to make the Boers into the supermen that many accounts would have you believe that they are.

So my thoughts were to up the British stamina to say 4 and up the Boer shooting dice to 4 also - hence you're more likely to get 6s from the Boers which effctively pins down the British. And/or have disorder effects delivered in closing fire as halting the charge before contact is made. Haven't tried out any of these options yet.

Anyone else out there in BP land interested in late colonial stuff?