Starting possible Scots Covenanter Army.

[TheGreatMarquis]

Sounds good to me,  Colonel, I hope you're right!

[charge the guns]

TheGreatMarquis said:

<snip>Its the interdependence between pike and shotte that needs to be represented - pike protecting shotte from cavalry and/or other pike and shotte protecting pike form shotte - that is the cornerstone of the warfare of the period.I am making these comments in the contexts of the English Civil Wars and not the Thirty Years War and my use of the term "semi-fictitious" was unfortunate with hindsight; but I'm not persuaded of the justification for having separate pike units and shot units as the basis for any army that took part in the civil wars in England - or Scotland for that matter. Like Mikeland, my own armies - Covenanter and Scots Royalist - are for collecting only. I would love to find a set of rules that would lead me to take up gaming again. It would be great if those rules were the Black Powder supplement. I think what Warlord has done for my favourite period has been brilliant.

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 Well, until JS steps in with his first hand accounts (he is very, very old ) I'd like to muse further on this very interesting topic.I totally agree that you want the rules to represent that interdependency between pike and shot, with their strengths and weaknesses - it is part of the 'colour' of this period.  The contemporary drill manuals explain how officers are to drill the pike and shot in bodies, and also in combined formations (e.g. "batalia").At the same time surely the rules need to allow commanders to act and react as they did in actual engagements, and to me this often meant shot, and sometimes pike acting (semi) independently.  For example the Battle of Ripple Field where we are given the impression it was a horse, dragoon and shot only engagement.  Who wouldn't want to be able to lead forward Appleyard's musketeers to take Cheriton Wood from Leighton's musketeers at the Battle of Cheriton. Then, most famously, surely every Royalist worth his salt would want to be in the body of Cornish pike led by Sir Bevil Grenville assualting Landsdown Hill.Now all of these foot troops came from pike and shot regiments, but on their fateful days, their commanders chose to deploy them as bodies of shot, or pike during the battle.  In Clarendon's account of Landsdown Sir BG details the shot from his regiment to cover his left where the ground was hedged, his horse on to cover his right where it was open, while he then joins at the head of his pike formation (as any gentlemen should!) and leads the assault which led to his death but Royalist victory (hoorah!).

[Colonel White]

Well...........I started to construct my box of miniatures last night at our store in Bolton.I must admit I strugggled a little bit with the musketeers . It isn't because they are difficult to build but more fiddley. Bearing in mind I have another 90 of these chaps to build when my Scots Battalia box arrives I am wondering if any of you guys who have built many of these have any good tips to offer.I will probably build the pikemen tonight at the club night with the intention of getting this unit painted for the weekend.Oh if any of you are in Bolton please call in on Brian as he has many tales to tell over a cup of tea involving his days in the Sealed Knot society ( ECW re-enactment) . Some of these are really really funny! Perhaps another reason why I had difficulty in constructing the musketeers!Can anyone recommend a good source of flags and Battallia /army leaders for Scots Covenenats? I think I will need extra flags on top of the Warlord ones and also Warlord don't appear to make many officers or characters (yet)  for this army ( I also prefer all my officers being different if possible) 

[Stuart]

They can be a bit fiddly, and if like me you have hands like shovels it can be even worse!I use super glue and activator so the arms set quick, it can take a bit of practice but much faster and not as fiddly.0With regards to flags, I've been using SCM, (solwaycraftsandminiatures.web.com), linen flags, they do some great Covenanter flags with lots of different coloured Saltire to choose from.Hope that helps a bit

[Colonel White]

Yes I was looking at their flags and I do like them but wasn't so sure about he linen as I thought it may look to thick. Obviuosly as you appear to have used them this is not the case.Is superglue ok with Plastics?

[Stuart]

With the flags, you can't fold them as some of the really thin tissue stuff I've seen, but you can get a nice curve going (just a gentle breeze on that day!), and I've found that  super glue works fine with them, I tend to use quite a thick glue. I'm not entirely sure how the PM works on this forum but if you want to "PM" me Colonel I've got a few of the SCM flags spare I could send you, at least you can see if you like before you buy!

[TheGreatMarquis]

Colonel,Re your command figures, Perry Miniatures do a nice set of three mounted officers in their Covenanters range - its SW1 but unfortunately there's no picture on their website. A particular favourite of mine is Eureka Miniatures figure of Lord George Gordon - its code 100ECW22 and they do have a picture on their website. There is (I believe) a company on the Isle of Wight called Fighting 15s that sells Eurueka figures in the UK.Alternatively you could use any compatible command figure from Warlord or the similarly sized/proportioned ranges, with or without swapping a bonneted head for one in a soft hat. Its purely a visual thing, but my personal preference is for the odd Scots command figure in a soft hat rather than bonnet.I hope this helps. But isn't it about time Warlord gave us a David Leslie or Sandy Leslie or even, dare I say it, a Marquis of Argyll (probably running away?) as opposition for Montrose and MacColla?

[Colonel White]

Thanks Stuart for the info . For flags I think I will be OK for a while utilising the Warord ones for now. The Great Marquis .You are right about the Scottish characters and we have no idea if it is Warlord's intention to bring out more characters as they tend to be most secretative  about new models. Bicorne do a decent looking model of Lord Levin.

[Cubster]

Re: SCM Flags. I've used them and to be honest I found the linen weave too large for my taste although the service and quality of print is great. Luckily the guy at Solway (I forget his name) is very helpful and perhaps he'd be happy to print out your flags onto a smaller weave cotton instead. I know he was experimenting with it a few months back.

[Colonel White]

Thanks Cubster ,I must admit that was also one of my concerns . I am looking for flags perhaps of GMB quality but I am not sure if GMB do ECW flags.I completed the Pike men last night at the club and I am pleasantly surprised at how big the whole unit looks when put together. JUst need to glue the bonnetts and clean up the figures prior to painting. I'll be honest for ease I may go straight to a grey primer stage and use this as the basis of base coat.