Kampfgruppe Normandy

[Colonel White]

I know there are one or two of you out there still undecided whether to plunge for this book or not. To help, a guy called Piers Brand as done some excellent reviews on various other forum columns . Just "google" Kampfgruppe Normandy Review and I am sure you will find one . The one on Dakka Dakka is particlularly good as it covers quite a few battles of different sizes.

There is no way I am going to push anyone into spending £48.00 on a rulebook. This you will have to decide yourselves. The only comparison I can do cost wise is that for FOW for example you will spend approx £30.00 for the rulebook or slightly less for the mini rulebook and models set. You will then need to buy one of the supplements at again approx £30.00 for your army lists. KN is a complete book with rules and lists and a history section designed to appeal to the newcomer to the era.

My reasons for getting this book which my nearest and dearest bought me as a present, is that I wanted to get back into 20mm WW2 wargaming purely as a nostalgia trip. Every model I can think of has been covered and is available in 20mm whether it be a plastic kit , metal or a Resin model.

The rules I found to be very easy to follow and there is a very nifty command and control mechanic which plays very well after watching MIke and Brian play a few games. I personally will be making my debut as a German player ( very unusual for me as I normally collect British or US models) in approx 2 weeks time when Brian is back from his holidays and I will be allying with Mike Rommel.By this time I will have a small force painted and based. They are actually usable now as we speak.Once played I will give my honest oppinion on how well the game plays for me.

[zedeyejoe]

Well big book with 346 pages and only 69 pages of rules, so if they had just stuck to rules they could have probably sold it at £12!

I like a lot of what I heard in the rules, in fact sound very similar to the rules I am developing. I am not certain that the supply rules are good. In mine (which are optional) you can just run out of ammo but that can be obviated by having a supply truck nearby. My experience is that people don't want to be bothered by supply factors in a game. After all only a few occasions where people ran out of ammo in a battle.

The idea of a die roll to allow the number of units you can use, again does not seem realistic.

Ranging rounds dropping in, followed by 'fire for effect' does seem like micro management but might be appropriate depending on time scale. If a turn is 15 minutes for example the ranging followed by actual fire could all take place in one turn, so would not need to be done separately.

And of course limited to Normandy - so forget Russians (unless they are fighting for Germany), Japanese or Italians.

Sorry to be negative but I wanted to point out the 'other side of the hill'.

[Colonel White]

Thanks Justin

I have heard on the rumour mill that a Russian Supplement is being developed. I forgot to mention also that they have just produced a PDF for those who want to use captured French Vehicles.

The supply side I think is quite fun for what I have seen and I have been requested by Mike to get my trucks ready for battle complete with 75mm ammo for the Panthers.

[mikeland]

As I think I pointed out in another thread, KN seems expensive as £48 is a big layout. But at a page per pence ratio it is pretty much on a par with Hail Caesar and Black Powder, and a third of the price per page of Operation Squad, and just a couple of pence more per page than the Flames of War basic book.

It is actually reasonable value. My grumble would be that by making such a large book, instead of separating the content over a few books it makes it hard for those who don't have such a large amount of spare cash at one time.

[Colonel White]

Being completely honest Mike it is very expensive as a book. No doubt about that.

Another way of looking at it especially compared to FOW which I know is probably the most popular WW2 rules going is the longevity of the book. Both Mike and Brian who are very experienced gamers cannot find anything wrong with the rules . They both play FOW and rate KN highly. KN ,I see will last for years and years with possibly supplements for the Eastern Theater. As an investment you will get more milage out of KN especially since FOW gets rehashed and the supplements every 3 years or so. On their forum column they are already talking about a version 3 so I am assuming this isn't too far away with another £30+ outlay for the rulesbook and again further outlay for the new supplement to run with the new rules.

I therefore conclude KN can work out far cheaper over the long run compared to FOW.THere is also no reason why KN can't be used for other scales as well

[zedeyejoe]

But at a page per pence ratio it is pretty much on a par with Hail Caesar and Black Powder, and a third of the price per page of Operation Squad

Statistics being interesting things to play with, are you counting all the pages in the book or just the rules pages? My point being that the fluff in the book might be useless to the player.

One more thing I am going to say about KOing tanks. You don't need to penetrate a tank to knock it out. Most crew would have bailed out if their tank was unable to move, Kursk being an exception where the crew were told to keep fighting in their tanks, which led to the loss of lots of trained crew. US tankers used to fire smoke shells at Panthers in the hope of persuading them that their tanks were on fire and that they should bail out. The Russians were still using AT rifles and hoping to damage German vision blocks and running gear.

[mikeland]

But at a page per pence ratio it is pretty much on a par with Hail Caesar and Black Powder, and a third of the price per page of Operation Squad

Statistics being interesting things to play with, are you counting all the pages in the book or just the rules pages? My point being that the fluff in the book might be useless to the player.

Very true, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

You are paying a hight price for a lot of (admittedly very nice) eye candy, and background stuff. Perhaps they could have used the pages adapting the rules for Russia and Italy. (But that would spoil future spin offs).

[zedeyejoe]

PS came across this KN rules primer on the WHH site. Covers the basic format of the rules
http://www.warhammer-historical.com/PDF ... sintro.pdf

[grant]

I'm sorely tempted as it is WHH and as such will be a thing of beauty.

But...

I am invested in FoW, and 15mm. If I dug into KN I would likely invest in the amazing AB figures and the cost would just be up there!

But tempting it is, and I havent heard a bad review yet.

[Parus Ater]

I first came in eyeball to AB figure contact at this year's War and Peace show and knelt there, transfixed at a specimen display of painted men. I'd have bought aome there and then if the guy who's vendor stand it was actually sold them instead of "just showing them off for him". I wanded lots of little german and russian lads to duke it out with.

Amazing looking things.