Info for doing English army in Ireland in 1640

[Dave Blue Team]

http://archive.org/stream/manuscriptsof ... 3/mode/2up

This above link takes you to the Manuscripts of the Marques of Ormonde. Printed in 1895 it's open to suspision as to the accuracy, but that's perhaps true of all sources. Anyway...

Pages 120 to about 146 really caught my eye. (If using the slidy bar at the bottom, starts at page 132, which is equivalent to page 120 of the printed book).

It appears to list the entire English forces based in Ireland at that time.
Regiments, Colonels, Captains. The Lt Colonels and Sergent-Majors.

Also lists the total number of men in each company - starting around printed page 130.

Example from printed page 132 (Bottom of page 131 suggests this information is from 23 Dec 1641).
Munster:
In Lord Lt regiment
Captain George Monke, Lt Cnl - Present
Officers 9
Pikemen 44
Musketeers 125 = 145
Absent
Ensign, Sick,1
Soldiers, sick 16
In all 162
Captain Henry Warren, Sgt Maj - Present
Officers 10
Pikemen 42
Musketeers 92 = 144
Absent
Soldiers, sick 17
In all 110

So if anyone is planning an army at this time, I recon this is worth a gander for some inspiration.

I also note that many of the companies and regiments appear in England during the ECW. Obviosuly the numbers and names will change drastically, but a fair few of them appear to have common command structure in place.
In the example above, Monke took command of the Regiment in 1643, but when the Regiment was at Nantwich in 1643 it was lead by Warren (Monke at the time was persuading Charles he wasn't a rebel, but you all knew that anyway). Warren was the Lt Colonel of the regiment and wanted to hand command back to Monke. It is sugested that Monke refused and wanted to fight in the front rank with a pike.
Anyway, it would appear that this regiment would have been quite similar between Ireland and Nantwich, with officers moving through due to deaths of officers etc.

Also, if you're doing the English force in Ireland around 1640 and 1641, I think that if you haven't discovered this aready, it will hopefully be really useful for you.

[westwaller]

Thank you for posting the link. It is very interesting document. At a glance it seems that some of the major names of the English Civil War were in Ireland in early 1642? I saw Massey and Waller's names there. I always assumed that the regiments in Ireland were relatively few in number, but this info suggests that a large amount of them came back to England to fight in the war, not just the later 'Irish' regiments.

[sandman36]

That is very cool. Thanks for the link.

[1642]

I have a 1643 muster pf the Regiments just prior to their coming over to join the Royalists in Wales and there are quite a lot of changes.

[Dave Blue Team]

A 1643 muster list eh? That would be intreging. Would a copy be available online or is it in print?
Would the print be redily available, or is it something difficult to locate?

My Royalist forces under Sir (recently) Lord Byron from Nov 1643 to Jan 1644 would welcome the added detail.

[1642]

I have it from an original source,as far as I am aware,never before published.

Name the Regiment and I'll give you the details,

Vic

[Dave Blue Team]

Oh goody.

All forces returned to England around 15 Novmeber 1643 (save Warren and some of Byron's who arrived early Dec 1643).
Sir Michael Ernley's Regiment - Think he had both horse and foot coming from Ireland in Nov 1643.
Major General Richard Gibson's Regiment - Foot
Sir Fulkes Hunckes' Regiment - Foot
Colonel Robert Byron - Foot
Lt Colonel Henry Warren's Regiment - Belonging to Colonel George Monke, but he was busy with the king until Nantwich 25/1/64
Captain Thomas Sandford and Colonel Langley both commanded non-regimented Firelocks in Ireland, and it would appear this is also true when returning to England

Captain John Marrow lead 60 horse in Ireland, he appears to become a Colonel after November 1643, but I can not find the regiment he served as colonel of.

These were regular and important defenders of Chester in 1643:
Colonel Roger Mostyn's Regiment - Foot.
Colonel Robert Ellice - Foot.
Sir Francis Gamull of the Chester Regiment - Foot.

I don't know if all of these regiments will appear in your source, but worth a try.

[westwaller]

Hello @Dave blue team,

I saw the name 'Robert Ellice' and it rang a bell if you have this info already apologies in advance.

'Colonel Robert Ellice of Gwasnewydd, one of the Denbighshire Commissioners of Array and a Veteran of Swedish service, was commissioned to recruit a regiment of foot. Though Ellice was highly thought of, his performance was a disappointment ;after designing an over-ambitious system of defences for Chester,he and most of his regiment were captured in March 1643 at Middlewich.

This is taken from John Barratt's 'Cavaliers'. Chapter 11 'Nursery of The King's Infantry-Wales and the Royalist Army' He goes on to state that Ellices foot were re-recruited in spring 1644, that they took part in the Lancashire Campaign. Barratt later says that Ellice's was finally destroyed at Montgomery.

Marrow took over Lord Cholmondeley's Cheshire Regiment who 'revitalised it and led it with such distinction until his death in August 1644 that he earned the reluctant accolade for the Cheshire Parliamentarians of ' A second Nimrod...a stout soldier and brave commander' - chapter 3 'The Horse' Cavaliers

[RoughRider]

' A second Nimrod...'

I don't know much about 17th cent English; what 's a Nimrod (giggles)?

Over here it isn't a flattering term...

[1642]

I'm still looking for the Army list of Sep. 1643 but here are my notes on Robert Ellices Regiment of Foot.

Colonel Robert Ellis regiment of Foot,a work in progress which I stopped a few years ago.

I.O. ALL DONE

Colonel Robert Ellis

Lieutenant Colonel BYRON

Sargeant Major Charles Gilmour (1) + ment. I.O. Denbigh
Sargeant Major Floyd Ment. I.O. Carmarthenshire
Sargeant Major Morgan Ment. I.O. Merionethshire

Captain Dalben Ment. I.O. Denbigh
Captain John Edwards I.O. Denbigh
Captain George Hosyer Ment. I.O. Denbigh
Captain John Johnes/Jones
Captain Floyd
Captain John Morgan I.O. Merionethshire
Captain John Morris (2)
Captain Thomas Powell I.O. Denbigh

Lieutenant John Gregory I.O. Salop.
Lieutenant Rice Edwards I.O. Merionethshire to Maj. Morgan.
Lieutenant Griffith Bowen I.O. Carmarthenshire to Maj.Floyd
Lieutenant Hosyer
Lieutenant David Lewis I.O. Denbigh to Capt. Dalben

Ensign Richard Blodwell I.O. Denbigh to Maj. Gilmore
Ensign David Edwards I.O. Denbigh to Capt. Hosyer
Ensign John Morris (2)

Time line from letters,etc

13th Jan 1643/4 Riuabon
16th Jan 1643/4 Chirke Castle



Sir,
I have a neccesity of my Armes here for men who will be raised before the Arms can be brought hither.If yout Town have occasion of my men I shall with more willingness bring them thither then any other place I know,being engaged both to the Gentry,and others,for their love to me,but I would not have any march without Arms,both for disorder,& scorn if they should be beset.I desire your favour for Horses to Welch Pool,for the bringing of 200 Musquetts;by this you shall much oblige him who is bound to be,

Your faithful servant,

Robert Ellice
To his much honored Friend Sir Francis Oteley Knt, Gov'r of Shrewsbury
January 1643/4 Ruabon ??

Sir,
I moved you,att my being at Shrewsbury,for one Steven Davis who hurt one by Oswestree,but the man being now recovered,I desire Capt. Morris may have his Souldier for his Majesties service,so I humbly desire you to procure his release.Pray send word to Capt. Hosier that as soon as he hath any considerable number of men he would draw them to Chirk Castle,where I am now with as many as Capt. Morris and myself have raised,perhaps I shall have another employment will be worth the pains.
I rest,
Your humble servant

Robert Ellice
Chirk Castle
January 16th 1643/4.



To Col. Ellis
Trusty etc. wee having nowe understood by your letter to the Chanc. of ye Exchequer of the good forwardness you are in raysing your Regiment are well pleased therewith and give you our thanks for your endeavours therein and because you desyre to have som fitt person sent you for Sgt. Major we have made choyse of this bearer Capt. Gilmour to whom wee have given our Commission for the same not doubting but he wilbee acceptable to you and answer your expectacions for his ability in the execution of this command,soe wee bid you farewell from, etc.
12th January 1642(3)

‘According to ye Commission given to me from his Majesty,I doe nominate constitute and appoint Ensign John Morris for one of the Captains of my Regiment for ye guard of ye fort,which Company is to be compleate one hundred men volunteers to be raysed by sound of drum or otherwise throughout his Majesties Dominions and to be brought to Oxford where his Majesty intends to reside this winter.
Given under my hand this 7th of December 1642
Robert Ellice’.



E.94.6 Cheshires Successe
13.3.1642/3 battle of Middlewich
Captured
Colonel Ellis
Major Gilmore
Captain Morris
Captain Starkey
Captain Davenport
Captain Floyd
Captain Johnes
Captain Horton
Captain Eaton
Captain Mason –Probably of Sir Thomas Astons Horse.
Lieutenant Sherlet
Lieutenant Hosyer
Lieutenant Marbey
Lieutenant Jennings
Lieutenant Dod
Lieutenant Corbet
Ensign Ward
Ensign Proudlove
Ensign Morris
Ensign Davenport
Lieutenant Hosyer others to be confirmed by me.See Aston microfilm and depositions.



Captains Corbet,Starkey,Hurlston,Massey of Cuddington,Eaton,Morris,Horton,Davenport of Woodford,Lloyd,Jones,Mason,
Lts Thomas Dodd Qtrmaster to Capt. Hurleston ? Charles Massey,Hosier,Jennings
2 Clerks Corbett and Edw. Charlton
Ensigns Weare,Proudlove,Morris and Davenport.

244.JPG jENNINGS IS cAPTAIN eYTONS lIEUTENANT.



1644.
FRAGMFMARY COPY of a letter from [Prince] Rupert to Colonel Robert Ellis,
lieutenant general of artillery.

Parliamentary Composition Papers, Ecclesiastical Precedents, Charter of Beaumaris, 4 Eliz.
Williams MS 522. Paper. 306 x 210. 302 pp. Half-bound white vellum. 16th and 17th cent. English and Latin.
This volume consists of a number of loose papers, legal and otherwise, beautifully mounted and bound together.
pp. 1-12. blank.
p. 13. The Royal Seal mounted.
p. 15. Grant of administration of estate of William Johnson, 1574. p. 17. Printed Proclamation issued by Charles I. at Oxford asking for a loan of £10 addressed to George Hope of Dodleston.
p. 21. Lord Byron to George Hope, Mch. 22, 1642. p. 25. Edw. Nicholas to Geo. Hope with reference to the raising of 34 men in Flintshire, March, 1643.
p. 29. To Geo. Hope (High Sheriff of Flintshire) to send warrants to Hope, Hawarden and Mold for 20 oxen or horses for his Majesty’s service. p. 33. To the High Sheriff of Flint informing him that 80 men or thereabouts are to be placed on guard in Hawarden Castle Aug. 15, 1643. p. 37. To the High Sheriffs and Commissioners of Array for Denbigh, Flint, Carnarvon, Merioneth, Anglesey with reference to raising a regiment of foot for Col. Robert Ellis, Jan. 1, 1643. Signed, Edw. Nicholas. p. 39. Particulars of the estate of George Hope of Dodleston. p. 41. Certificate signed by the Commissioners for putting into execution the Composition Act in N. Wales with regard to behaviour of George Hope then about 80 years old. Dated, 11 April, 1651.
p. 43. Discharge, signed by Commissioners, of George Hope after compounding to the Parliament, Nov. 2nd, 1650.
p. 45. Rectification of particulars with regard to the sale of the Manor of Flint to Thomas Warkworth and Captain Richard Smith, 17 Feb. 1651.
p. 47. Proceedings of the Commissioners for Compounding with regard to the petition of George Hope, 26 June, 1652, 31 Jan. 1652.
p. 49. Discharge of the sequestration of George Hope’s estate, 31 Jan. 1652.
p. 51. Order by the Commisioners for managing estates as regards rectories and vicarages disposed of by the Commissioners for the Propagation of the Gospel in Wales, 26 Aug. 1654.
p. 57. The copy of a letter addressed by James, Duke of Monmouth to the Duke of Albemarle, and the latter’s reply.
pp. 59-233. Originally a separate book, folios 75-208 written about the end of the 16th and beginning of the 17th century, containing precedents of ecclesiatical documents issued by the Bishops and chapters of St. Asaph and other dioceses.
p. 235. A Fine dated 28 Sept. 1657, the parties being Thomas Crachley, George Ravenscroft and Mary his wife, relative to property in Great Mancot. p. 237. Grant by Kenrick ap Ieuan ap Rh. of land in Hendre Cayrwys to John Griffith [10 Elizabeth].
p. 239-263. An account of the rents of the Lady Wootton due to His Highnesse the Lord Protector, mostly in Wrexham, also other accounts including the Rents of Recusants under sequestration in Flintshire and Denbigh (p. 253), Montgomery (p. 259).
p. 269-293. A copy of the Charter of Beaumaris in English granted 22 July, 4 Eliz.
Capt. Gilmore, Savage, and Ley, Petition for their Enlargement.
The Petition of Captain Charles Gilmore, James Savage, Edw. Ley, Prisoners in Newgate, was read; desiring, "That they may be released, or some Maintenance may be allowed them."
Ordered, To send to the House of Commons, to let them know, that this House thinks it fit the Prisoners be released, upon Security given not to repair into Ireland, unless the House of Commons knows Cause for their longer Restraint; which if they do, it is the Desire of the Lords that some Course may be taken for their Relief, to keep them from starving in Prison.

From: 'House of Lords Journal Volume 5: 21 September 1642', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 5: 1642-1643 (1802), pp. 365-66. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... ry=captain. Date accessed: 19 July 2005.

E.81.15 Colonel Lloyd and Ellis beaten off from Wrexham Dec Jan 1643/4

E.256.2 Perfect occurrences of Parliament 6-13.9.1644


Colonell Ellis with about 200 Foot about Denbigh Castle
Letter Osestry 2.9.1644.


A Captain Lieutenant to Colonel Ellis slain at storm of Bolton.Maybe Liverpool ??


Colonel Robert Ellis finally surrendered in Oxford Garrison and had a pass from Fairfax dated 24.6.1646


To the right worthy the Justices of the Peace of the County of Carnarvon
The humble petition of William Roberts late inhabitant in the town of Carnarvon
May it please your worshipps to be advertised that your said poore petitioner hath been a souldier in King Charles the first of ever blessed memory,his service (vizt in England under the command of Colonell Ellis five yeares or thereabouts,in Ireland under the Lord Incequeene for the space of five yeares and a half where he receaved two shotte on(e) through his foote and ye other through the legge and a cutt besides so that ever since he hath not been able to releeve and helpe himself his wife and children savinge what his good neighbours in meare charatie doth extend towards him and his chardge.