Charging units in woods

[Aman]

apologies if this question is an oldy, or already answered elsewhere.

P&S indicates in the section on woods that there is no Line of Sight within woods. Units lining the edge of woods can shoot and be shot at. Also, one is not permitted to enter woods unless in skirmish formation. Questions:

1. Can a formed unit charge a unit in skirmish formation lining the edge of the woods? Or do they need to change into skirmish formation to fight the unit lining the edge? In other words, do they need to "enter" the woods to effect the charge or not?

2. I have a unit in skirmish order in woods. An enemy unit in skirmish order is also in the woods. However, the rules as written say there is zero line of sight in the woods. How are these units allowed to fight, if at all? Can you move up until you are in contact and then have LoS and charge or shoot?

There is an inherent problem with zero LoS in woods, being that if two enemy units are one micron apart, they still can't see each other.

Any clarification appreciated. We don't need "gentlemanly suggestions" as altho we are not gentlemen, we've over 100 years of gaming experience behind us as a group, and can think of plenty of solutions. We're looking for "Rules as Written" clarity, if there is any.

Thanks!

[Alan Charlesworth]

On the first question. Most seem to play that a formed unit outside of woods can charge a unit lining the edge of the woods. However, if the chargers win and qualify for one of the options under Victorious Units (page 68), then would would not be able to make a Sweeping Advance but would need to change formation before moving into the wood.

If the chargers had already changed into open order, then if they won, they could make a Sweeping Advance into the wood in the same turn.

So it's a tactical decision.

The second question. All three books BP, HC and P&S are silent on visibility distance in woods. That is a problem because you cannot shoot a target you can't see and you have to be able to see your target at the start of your Charge Move (remember Move and Turn are different). So if you can't see you can't shoot or charge. You can't move into contact if you can't charge. So if you take the rules literally then you move to within a micron of each other and stop, but can't shoot or fight!

I thought this was an oversight with BP. So I was surprised when it was not covered in the following two rules sets either?

So to make the rules work you need to have a house rule about visibility distance.

The rules we use are as follows:

1. A unit inside and lining the edge of a wood can see out and be seen.

2. Units inside a wood can see 2" within the wood. They cannot see outside nor can they be seen from outside.

It is simple fix that works. The distance is arbitrary. It represents about 20m to 25m in reality if you work out the approximate ground scale. That is probably too far in the real world. But it is a practical distance to work with on the table as a mechanic.

[Aman]

Alan, thanks for reply. P&S p.40 "Terrain - Woods...It is usual to assume that woodland can't be seen through or into by our troops, apart from those positioned along the edges who can see out and who can likewise be seen."

But I think you need the 2" within the woods, as you say.