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Regional armies for ECW

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Regional armies for ECW

Postby Rook » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:26 pm

I thought I would just post a few ideas here (and maybe army list variations if folk are interested) about regional variations in armies of the ECW. Principally the variation is in the ratio of shot to pike in your foot units. The ratio (muskets to pikes throughout) of 2;1 was an ideal not a reality for many armies. Early armies ie 1642, could only dream of such ratios. The royalist army described by Clarendon at Edge hill was very poorly armed. It would be quite acceptable to have a ratio of 1;1 for most unts with the odd unit of 1;2 and your elite as 3;2. The Parliament were better off as they held most of the major arms stores and the navy to control imports so a ration of 3;2 being the norm and 2;1 not uncommon. Later on the main armies of Essex and Charles (aka The Man of Blood) would be 2;1.

Dukeing it out further west William Waller and more importantly Ralph Hopton's Royalists would be less well supplied. Waller would be around the 2;1 but with some 3;2 in the poorer units. Hopton better quality troops would be 2;1 BUT his majority of troops could well be represented fairly by 3;2. The Royalist Cornish were a rule unto themselves and should be 1;1 at best and even 1;2 . The Cornish were rightly famed for getting stuck in hard and fast but they were so poorly provisioned with guns they had to melee or just stand around throwing rocks and insults! Perhaps give them a bonus for aggression but don't do the Truro Terccio Tank approach.

Here up North again things were different before 1644. At the battle of Whalley for example the Parliamentarian foot were described in current reports as "being mainly firemen" ie musketeers. Units on both sides could be fielded as 3;1 or even 1;0 unless recreating formal battle (3;2 being a better ratio here). The reason for this is almost certainly the close nature of the terrain, lanes, stone walls and woods dominating the terrain particularly in east Lancashire making formal cavalry actions and therefore the need for big pike blocks unnecessary. Much of the war up here was hit n run raiding and siege. The none shot troops hand to hand dice should be much the same as the musketeers.



As to cavalry: Not all pre New Model Parliament horse stood to receive charges. Post 1642 try a middle way allowing the Parliament to countercharge but not giving them the Galloper light cavalry move. Also allow the horse to be poorly equipped in your early armies and perhaps those representing the Southwest and North by dropping their armour save.

Ok thats my initial salvo. :old Happy to recieve corrections and insights. If asked I will have a stab at a regional list or two.
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Re: Regional armies for ECW

Postby Dream17 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:03 pm

I am aiming for a Regional theme to my army.
Buckinghamshire based.
First Battalia would be two units of Hampden's Greencoats and one of Bucks trained band. may well go 3:2 on GC's and 2:1 on trained band.
Have got several books on the local area during the Civil War. Aylesbury was a key location at the time, there was also a Battle 3 miles from where I live in High Wycombe, but it's not common knowledge, I only found out about it during research for ECW about 8 years ago. :shrug
This meat is a bit Papist for my methodist tastes
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Re: Regional armies for ECW

Postby Morsleib » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:15 pm

Interesting analysis. How would you propose simulating ratios such as 3:2 in Black Powder? Would you adjust the size/number of sub-units or just the attack dice? I am thinking the latter.

I am constructing an army loosely based on Lancashire Royalists. Lord Derby and Sir Thomas Tyldesley will provide enough variety and colour for as you say, sieges and raids. By all accounts Stanley didn't make much of a general so i have a ready made excuse for any failures on my part ;)

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Re: Regional armies for ECW

Postby Dream17 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:11 pm

By all accounts Stanley didn't make much of a general so i have a ready made excuse for any failures on my part

:laughter :laughter :laughter

checking the P&S rules, you would have to use the NMA list, that allows a ratio of 3:1
saying that there is only a 1pt difference that's only for the first fire skill
This meat is a bit Papist for my methodist tastes
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Re: Regional armies for ECW

Postby 1642 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:00 pm

The Earl of Derby was a very able Commander but had the troops under him taken away,such as Tyldesleys and Lord Molyneuxs Foot,leaving him to rely on remaining Trained Bands.
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Re: Regional armies for ECW

Postby Rook » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:51 pm

Morsleib I would adjust their fire and melee points. Or possibly in extreme cases make the shot units "small". Not really thought through how this would effect the points values at the moment. Also re the Lancashire Royalists, I am researching the battle of Whalley and therefore the Lancashire armies. Are you in that area as I am and am looking for another player. As to the martial skills of Stanley aka Lord Derby I am with you. He did ok at Edge Hill but made a mare of himself at Whalley and at Wigan lane later on . Tyldesleys and Lord Molyneuxs were quite compitant throughout but 1642 is correct that pretty much as soon as he got a unit up to standard The Man of Blood (His magesty to you Royalists) 'borrowed' them for his main field armies.
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Re: Regional armies for ECW

Postby Morsleib » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:50 pm

Rook, I am in Nottingham but my wife if from Lancashire. Her family originate from Lathom where Lord Derby had his home and of course site of the famous sieges. Have you read "A General Plague of Madness" by Stephen Bull? That covers the war in Lancashire including Whalley.

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Re: Regional armies for ECW

Postby Rook » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:10 pm

I live just down the road from there. Yes its on the bookshelf and a damn good read too.
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Re: Regional armies for ECW

Postby Morsleib » Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:51 pm

I just bought 'Massacre: The Storming of Bolton', by David Casserly. I think that may be a useful source of a good scrap. I haven't read it yet but it seems to cover a wider scope than just the battle in Bolton itself.

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Re: Regional armies for ECW

Postby Rook » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:50 am

Must have a look at that one. Ta Morsleib
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