Painting Dragoons

[brownpants]

I've taken delivery of a box of dragoons- but I'm not sure what to go for uniform wise. I want to avoid red if possible- I'm sick of painting red... Can anyone point me in the right direction for some dragoon regiment ideas? (Royalist and/or Parliament). I don't seem to be able to find much info on the web.

Or if anyone wants to post pics of their finished dragoons, that would be helpful.

Thanks!

Mark

[BigMike]

I thought Grey would make a nice change, with red for the leader and just do the sashes in the main army colour. No idea if it has historical authenticity but I saw the grey pike and shot regiment in the painting guide and liked the look of it!

[TheGreatMarquis]

Hi Mark,

The various Ospreys on the ECW suggest the New Model Army dragoons wore "orange-tawny" coats, at least in the early days of the New Model. Whilst I wouldn't regard the Ospreys as definitive, Haythornthwaite also illustrates a dragoon in an orange coat although no supporting reference is quoted in the text covering the illustration.

I am sure I have seen a reference to a Royalist dragoon regiment in black coats but I haven't been able to find it since I saw your post. If I do, I'll post it!

Hope this helps.

Rob

[Glowr]

I can't remember any Osprey references to NMA dragoons wearing orange/tawny, most secondary sources regard them as probably following the infantry in coat colour i.e. some kind of red.

My Haythornwaite has the NMA dragoon in red (probably a bit too bright a red - but red nevertheless).

However, I have seen references to firelock train guards in 'tawny/orange' in both Essex's army and the NMA.

Black seems a bit doubtful as it was apparently a very costly colour to produce.

As with a lot of things in the ECW - read as much as possible and do what looks right

Glowr

[John at Warlord Games]

Hi Brownpants... totally agree way too many redcoats out there,,,

The good thing about the civil was is that we know so FEW coat colours if truth be told..

I cant think of any known dragoon coat colours bar okey's New noddle army Venice clad ruffians.

So, we can make em up!! I own a rather spiffey yellow coated regt of dgs and a grey unit too.. Both look fine.. some blue coats sounds like a no brainer, common enough and , not red....and green is a good colour if you get it right.

its possible that a unit may have had no uniform at all, just civilian garb, or indeed a unit made up of disbanded regts so that they are in all sorts of colours, it happened a lot.

Have to agree with Glowr, black is really not a known colour at all for any unit, sadly as it would look great....

Cheers john stallard

[brownpants]

Thanks for the input everyone. I have two lots of Dragoons to work with- from the box set and some converted cavalry which actually look OK. So at least I can experiment.

I remember reading too somewhere that black was an expensive dye . I notice there is a re-enactment regiment that has black coats and they look really smartl. But whether this would have really happened... I might try it anyway.

My big problem now is that I might be distracted by the looming release of the Irish Brigade- after I have seen two of them in the flesh today, my concentration is starting to wander... time to consult the Montrose army list... :)

[TheGreatMarquis]

Some interesting comments above.

On the subject of Okey's NMA dragoons my Osprey "New Model Army 1645-60" says "In the early stages of the New Model's career there are references to "tawny" coats;...Venice red might have become the norm later on." Plate D1 shows a dragoon in what I take to be a tawny coat - it certainly isn't Venice red! My Haythornthwaite shows the same colour.

By the time the Elite "Soldiers of the English Civil War (2): Cavalry" was published the dragoons are illustrated only as in red coats (Plate H) though the two red coats show, correctly I'm sure, considerable variation in redness.

I wouldn't hold out Ospreys as a definitive source, especially as the reference I've quoted doesn't specify where the "references to tawny coats" come from but I agree with John that very few coat colours are actually known and coming back to the original inquiry, it makes a change from all that Venice red.

As far as the black coats are concerned the very early Osprey "The English Civil War Armies" refers to the regiment of Sir Thomas Blackwell as possibly wearing black coats. I have reservations about that;but Haythorthwaite in the text to plate 28 refers to a Scottish regiment " the Minister's Regiment was said to be dressed in black, second hand clerical clothing." Again, he doesn't quote the source for that and i can't find any substance for it. The Minister's Regiment was Sir Arthur Erskine of Scottcraig's regiment and I have not traced any reference to black clerical garb but I have a covenenter army and a black coated regiment among all that hodden grey is an attractive idea!

But the point is that although I've often read that black was a very expensive colour to produce it seems to be accepted that it was the staple colour of clerics and for that matter of the puritans, so was it really that rare?

Isn't the truth that we just don't know.

So my dragoons are grey coated, just like all but one of the foote (Home's in red by the way, not the Minister's in black) - and I'm looking forward to Montrose, the Irish and the highlanders providing some opposition!

[rasmus]

I have two boxes of Dragoons (so far), one will go to the Scots and be a brown and grey mix with the odd bit of blue thrown in, including the bonnets.

And the other will go to the South Essex, That came outof nowhere (and me getting a little fed up with cleaning the bonnets) and took on a life of it own - and they will mainly be in Old Robins Devereux Orange and floppy hats.

[Glowr]

Hi Great Marquis

The colour tawny is usually described as being a yellowish brown ( e.g. a 'tawny owl'). My Haythornwaite and Ospreys show a reddish colour for their NMA dragoons, rather than tawny, but I don't think that there are any real references for this being the actual colour.

I have read somewhere that tawny was actually a generalistion of the colour of 'country cloth' ('Now country grey has become roundhead grey') and could be anything from greyish to brownish (just as we paint our Scots 'Hodden Grey')

I remember that Blackwell's Regiment in the Sealed Knot wore black back in the 1970s but I think that was just a play on the name. Any regiment called 'the Black Regiment' seems to have been called that because they carried black colours.

I used to paint my Hinchliffe dragoons in green. I think it was because Napoleon's dragoons wore green so I thought that it was a good 'dragoon colour'. These days I paint them either red, blue or grey.

All the best

Glowr

[John at Warlord Games]

Good stuff all.. Yes, if black was SO expensive why are all the bloomin clerics wearing it then...Mind you, how many cleric's clothes do you need to equip a whole regiment eh?

Blackwells were ECW society , not Sealed Knot...and your right, it was only their flag that was called black, not the coats, but it does look good.

I ran a regiment in the SK for a few years called sir Gilbert Hoghtons companie of foote(fine body of men and gals..) who had started in black doublets and black breeches....I had a hell of a fight to change the coat colour to a more sensible (though equally imaginary)red.

Crikey, they liked looking different in black..but didnt mind looking unlikely!!

happy times..

john s