Alasdair MacColla help

[mikeland]

Colonel White said:

PS MIkeland  If you have not started painting your ECW forces, its not too late to start 2 Scots forces. Bits such as Scots Bonnets can be obtained direct from Warlord to turn your existing soldiers into Scots. If you enjoy doing research , then this is a great project and is quite challenging in that department and hopefully any holes can be filled in by the experts on this site. It would also be great for both of us because then we can mutually suport each other after all that is what this great hobby is all about.

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Thanks Colonel. Loving the research, both of my Parliament and Royalists are underway, but as I only paint to collect I can take a long time to complete my projects and tend to work on several hings at a time, so I may add a third army to my Pike and Shot and do a generic Scotts army that could be used for either side, the bulk being Covenanter style grey and blue bonnet, with a unit on highlanders and some lancers thrown in, however I have Newcastle's white coats to finish first plus a unit of Perry Cavalry and some cannons to get done before I buy some more foot.(Not to mention a pile of romans, celts and a box of perry WotR! I know I mad, but I just love it all. So many historical periods, so little painting time!).

[TheGreatMarquis]

ColonelAnother pointer that may help with your research is Scots Armies of the 17th Century written by Stuart Reid and published by Caliver Books. Volume 3 deals with the Royalist Armies and has, amongst others in Plate 11 a representation of Minimore's Standard. He also suggests in the text that the regiment was a pike and shot unit.I picked up my copy on ebay for a song but the last time I checked it was still on sale on the Caliver website.Furgol's "Regimental History of the Covenanting Armies" contains references to the Gordon foot as being foot as opposed to "highlanders", "clan" or "retinue". There's nothing to suggest they were anything other than normal pike and shot troops, similar in appearance to the Strathbogie Regiment. The Project Auldearn site which you've obviously found, is usually very well researched in my experience.

[Colonel White]

TGM- Thanks for your input. I am glad that you think the Project Auldearn site is well researched as I am using some of their knowledge as well as info from your goodselves to get this project done. I notice the you are of the opinion that  these normal foot units would look like the Strathbogie rgmt which in turn is very similar appearance to a Convenantar unit. I am not doubting your knowledge one bit but can you back that up from a source or is that your guestimate before I start painting. As regards the books I am waiting to be delivered a copy of the out of print Osprey Scots Armies of the English Civil War also by Stuart Reid which I beleive is a condensed version of the books you have.Another problem I could do with some help with is the Convenantor Units that were present at Auldearn.No one appears to do the flags for these units with the exception of the Lawers Unit.This did surprise me as according to "Scottish Battles" by John Sadler many of these units fought at Marston Moor which was a major ECW battle. Would you use generic Saltire flags in these circumstances as I know Redoubt do these or am I trying to be too precise?  Or would you pick another collection of units eg those at Philiphaugh for instance? I would prefer an army formed around units that fought alongside each other if at all possible.Many thanks

[Cubster]

If you can't find specific info to the contrary, you can't really go wrong with a saltire (you don't always have to stick to blue with white cross though) for the Government troops, with the mottos in each quarter - For Religion, Covenant, Kinge, Cuntrie/Kingdome – or oddly spelled words to that effect.  

[TheGreatMarquis]

Colonel,As far as the Royalist foot is concerned I'm referring to the Partizan/Caliver titles previously mentioned. The Osprey isn't as strong on the various Gordons units as Volume Three of the "Scots Armies" series. If you want to make the Gordons appear different, my copy of the Warhammer English Civil War rules has a set of illustrations by the late Rick Scollins which include a musketeer and a pikeman of the Strathbogie Regiment. At leat one of them is shown wearing tartan trews. When I finally get round to painting my Warlord Strathbogie Regiment I intend to file/sand down the trousers on some of the plastic pike and shotte into closer fitting trews. (I've had a practice run on some of the command figures for my Covenant Highlanders and it's worked well).As far as Covenant standards are concerned, the Osprey book you're waiting for has covenant colours - in outline - throughout the text. There's a book by Ede-Borrett and McGarrigle on "The Scottish Colours of Foot and Cornets of Horse 1639-1651" that is very helpful. I bought mine on ebay some years ago so I'm not sure abvout availability but you could try googling it. There was a colour article in Military Modelling Magazine years ago that I've seen recently on the internet. I will post the link separately if I can find it again.Cubster is right - nearly all saltires but in all colours and combinations, definitely not mainly blue on white.

[TheGreatMarquis]

Found it!The colour illustrations are at http://www.scotwars.com/equip_.....ds_pt2.htm. I can't get the interactive part to work but I do have the MM article with the key to the illustrations and could send you a copy by snail mail if you want. It was this article that first got me interested in the Scots civil war.Many of the colours are simply described as "unknown" as the article dates back to 1978/9. More recent titles appear to identify several - the Osprey is good in that respect.Finally the "Body's Banners" part of the Redoubt Enterprises site is quite well illustrated with the Scots covenanters colours (less so for the Scots Royalists). Personally, I was disappointed with the flags in the flesh when I saw them but they made a good reference!

[charge the guns]

The reason that we know so much about the Scots Covenant colours of 1648 – 1651 is thanks to those New Nodel types and the excellent bookkeeping (!) of the English parliament. Basically the Scots were careless enough to lose a lot of colours at Preston, Dunbar and Worcester which were then recorded. A white saltire on a blue field was most common, but there were also other combinations such as yellow on black and white on red.The Partizan Press books that TGM mentions are all excellent and should be sought out. They are not as 'glossy' as the Osprey series, but have excellent detail. I think you have to keep an eye on Reid's teeny bias against those from the other side of the Great Glen, but overall invaluable.A colour for Lawers' regiment is recorded following the loss at Dunbar where they fought as stoutly as any regiment in the army, but were finally overcome following the rout of the rest of the Scots army.I totally agree about wanting more trews for the Scots.  Filing down breeches is hard work!

[Colonel White]

Again thanks guys.TGM - I may take you upon that offer for the key for the standards. However it is coincidence that I am going to have a clear out this weekend and getting rid a lot of my old White Dwarfs and I have discovered a pile of Military Modelling going back to the late 70's . So I will have a check through  these first to see if I have that very article.As regards the Gordons I think the way forward for me would be to apply some Geeenstuffed tartan "Blankets" on the models. I don't think I will go to the extreme lengths  of filing away breeches though.I have noticed none of the other manufacturers produce models with trews either. The only other models that have caught my eye are the Eureka dragoons which I quite fancy to represent the mounted Irish. The Warlord ones are wonderful models but for me they look too neat and  tidy to represent the mounted Irish.

[Mr Happy]

charge the guns said:

 I think Minimore's men (re. your other message) would be best represented as highlanders as well. As they were the "Gordon levies" with Alasdair in the desperate fighting at Auldearn I'm left with the impression they were not pikemen.

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 Wotcha, Gordon of Minimore's were prety definately lowland in arms, equipment, dress and people. The east coast recruitig ground and the people involved were all Lowland - although by the 18th century they were making starting to become "highland" (although contemporary letters from Highland neighbours still describe them as Lowland as a derogetory term) Gordon's, Fraser's, Farquahson's - all of them lowland in appearence in the 17th Century, and "Highland" in the 18th. The Q culture Gael who were the distinctive Highlanders of the 17th century really went as east as the Grampians (west coast to A9 (ish)) The lochabre is very much a humblies weapon, and not one for a man of substance. Guns were status weapons, and there was a thriving gun trade out of Glasgow providing for the Highland market - the distinctive haqbut being very popular. B'fhearr leam breacan uallach

[Colonel White]

Again thanks for the input .I did receive my Men at Arms Osprey on Saturday . In it, is a very good plate of the Strathbogie Regiment but they look quite different to those that are included on the prints in the Warhammer ECW book.I reckon this is because the "uniforms"  did vary throughout the regiment. I feel I have enough material including the standard from War Flag to tackle this unit with confidence that it should look "right". This book also includes a picture one of MacColla's Life Guards which is quite "highland" in appearance. I have therefore decided on a unit of 10 with a mixed  bag of highlanders and Irish as per my original post.THis unit of 10 represents a real unit of 100 which seems to be about right for numbers even though the WHECW book suggests 6.I will take up that kind offer by GTM as my Military Modelling mags are slightly later in being 1979 copies. this will enable me (hopefully) to at least get the correct coloured Saltires for the Cov regiments.