NMA Flag advise needed

[Suetonius Paullinus]

Hi

I am currently working on my New Model Army regiment for the later stages of the Civil Wars.

I quite fancy them to have the Commonwealth flag as colours, would this be acceptable or totally unlikely?

At the moment the ensign is carrying this:

Can anyone of you gents help?

Thanks for your opinions/ educated guesses etc.

Cheers

S.P.

[TheGreatMarquis]

S.P. I'm not aware the Commonwealth flag was ever used for the NMA. It was a national flag from 1649 to 1651 according to Wikipaedia. There's no reference to its use as a military flag in any book I've ever read about the NMA.

There's an excellent little book called "Ensignes of the English Civil Wars" by Stephen Ede-Borrett which is a comprehensive work on the subject but it doesn't even mention the Commonwealth flag.

It does incidentally describe a colour like your yellow colour as the third captain's colour of the Southwark Regiment of Trained Bands 1643-1647. However the circles shouldn't be white on yellow - in theory at least - in heraldry white and yellow are "metals", silver and gold respectively and the rules of heraldry require a colour on a metal and vice versa, but never a colour on a colour or a metal on a metal. Ede-Borrett does not give a clolour for the circles but other sources describe them as blue on the Southwark flags.

I don't know if this helps with your query or not - I hope so!

Rob

[Suetonius Paullinus]

I couldn't find anything else on the Commowealth flag either but it is on the Warlord Games flag sheet http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/kc02-parliamantarians-2497-p.asp

and since I quite like the design I started wondering. They probably put it on there for a reason...hmm.

The yellow flag of the third company is selfmade and your remark on the rules of heradry are most welcome (I should have known better after painting WotR..), I think I will change the colour of the discs. Since my regiment is more generic and not a specific one I just did what 'looked' best to me.

Cheers

S.P.

[Cubster]

How relevant would heraldry really be when a unit made its own flag? I'm pretty sure some Swedish flags of the TYW were yellow & white.

[TheGreatMarquis]

The yellow and white Swedish TYW flags I am aware of are white and yellow stripes. They're not strictly speaking white devices on a yellow background.

There are examples of "wrong" ECW flags, red devices on green springs to mind but that does seem to have been the exception rather than the rule. Otherwise recorded and surviving colours follow the heraldic rule.

Rob.

[Dale Yates]

i will do some digging around,as i have several e.c.w. books on flags and a few on the new model army.

Dale

[Suetonius Paullinus]

Cheers mate, that would be absolutely wonderful!!!

I know some re-enactors use the Commonwealth Flag but I do not know the context since the picture shows only the ensign and an officer..

I am about to finish the regiment so any advise is very much appreciated!

Cheers

S.P.

[david1234]

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but surely the Commonwealth was only created after the execution of Charles I, when the monarchy and the House of Lords were abolished? I think it was 1653 before it was established. Therefore the commonwealth flag wouldn't and couldn't have been used by NMA units during the English Civil war, but could be used by NMA units on the Continent, ie, in the 'Battle of the Dunes'.

[Suetonius Paullinus]

You are, of course, absolutely correct. But there was still quite a bit of fighting going on 1649-53. Also called The third Civil War.

Cromwell's campaign in Ireland and Charles II's (aka 'King of the Scots') invasion of England (and indeed the first Anglo Dutch war).

So plenty scenarios where one could display the colours of the Commonwealth methinks (I really do like this flag).

However, question is: would they actually have used it in battle?

Cheers

S.P.

[Dale Yates]

Are there any particular units that you are looking for S.P. or any particular period of the new model army.

Cheers

Dale