fighting force

[centurionmarco]

hello my fellow romans. I have been an avid gamer for many years mostly dba but recently i have become more involved in WAB. started my first cohort and have 14 models done (will get pics up soon) my question is what is a good playing army for 2,000 pts. i want to run at least 3 cohorts of legionars of 18 models some aux and cav with a couple scorpios but what do you think of archers or skirmish sligers for fire support.

[Jim]

Hail Centurion Marco!

3 blocks of legionaries is a solid force – but is very vulnerable on its own, as it lacks speed and reach to defend itself.

One thing I found hard about coming away from Dba to WAB was that there was these things called flanks – and I often adopted the Dba line up mentality and forgot about fast moving cavalry and the power of bow armed troops.

This is the list I am working towards for my Romans. I have my eye set on a 5000 point list from which I can pick and choose my force composition. I am about half way there painting wise.

But for a 2000 pointer game I would generally take the following:

Army General with Light Armour 138

Army Standard Bearer with Light Armour 68

Junior Officer (Tribune) with Light Armour, Warhorse 61

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18 Regular Legionaries with full cmd 308

20 Regular Legionaries with full cmd 340

20 Regular Legionaries with full cmd 340

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10 Auxiliary Infantry with Light Armour Thrusting Spear, full cmd 115

10 Auxiliary Infantry with Light Armour, Thrusting Spear, full cmd 115

10 Auxiliary Archers 70

10 Auxiliary Archers 70

10 Greek Skirmishers 40

10 Greek Skirmishers 40

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9 Auxiliary Cavalry with ful cmd 195

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1 Ballistae with 2 crew 46

1 Ballistae with 3 crew 54

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Total 2000

Although that is a fair amount of troops for a Roman Army, in a 2000 point Celtic army you are likely to be facing off against 90-150 warriors, maybe 20 odd fanatics 20-30 cavalry and 20-30 skirmishers. So protecting your flanks, is parramount.

Tactics wise.

I will try to anchor a flank on a terrain feature or deploy in front of a hill.

Legionaries in the centre in a 1 up 2 back or a 2up 1 back formation.

Auxiliary on the flanks – slightly behind the third rank of legionaries and slightly facing out.

Archers and will go behind the main body on a slope or in between legionaries where they can draw a bead on the enemy.

Skirmishers to the front to prevent enemy archers or skirmishers wearing down the legionaries.

Cavalry to your unprotected flank or rear, you can either use them to threaten a flank or as a reserve to protect your flanks.

Balistae will usually deploy in between the legionaies.

The General and standard bearer will deploy in the centre legionary formation to provide solid leadership and re-rolls to all your troops.

The tribune will accompany the cavalry to lend some combat power and morale.

Cheers,

Jim

[david1234]

I would personally take 3 reglar units of 18 legionaries, and a veteran unit of 18 as well. I wouldn't bother with the Tribune. I would then take a unit of 8-9 cavalry (I take camelry with Kantos but aux cav does virtually the same job with thrusting spears), a unit of 10 aux bowmen, another of 10 barbarian slingers, and a unit of 16-17 aux infantry with light armour, shields, throwing spears and full command.

This gives me a strong infantry line which, anchored with the General's leadership is not likely to go anywhere and their armour is proof against most missile shots (remember Legionaries are at their best when they make a charge, not recieving one, so be offensive with them if possible), one flank, preferably the one with the most terrain, can be defended by the two small units of skirmishers , the camelry will operate on the other flank as a deterrent to enemy outflanking attempts and/or to get onto an enemy flank, and the aux infantry will try and support the camelry, or, if facing a skirmisher heavy army, will operate in front of the legionaries using their javelins. The general should NOT be put into a unit as Roman generals are not primarily warriors, but should be used for their abilities as a leadership anchor for your line, so place him behind your main battle line in the centre. I put the batle standard bearer with the veterans and rely on the veterans to make the first breach in the enemies battle line.

If you are facing masses of barbarians, advance forward and charge first, the celt line will (hopefully) break and their numbers will not count for much after that! And make sure as Jim says, to support at least one of your flanks with terrain, although this will aboviosuly not fully protect that flank, just provide an obstacle to potential outflankers.

I don't bother taking war machines, if they hit they are great, but they don't hit often enough to make them worthwhile, plus putting them between units is likely to cause panic tests when the enemy charges them.

Hope this helps

[zedeyejoe]

I have a few example WAB armies on my site, this is the Imperial Roman one

http://www.3vwargames.com/whammer/army_improme.htm

It is an army I have used in competitions, so it works but is not a killer force, so your opponents should feel that they have had a good game too.

[centurionmarco]

thos eare some great army list and i can see how they will play in a very offensive game. all list look great but i like the smash mouth type play ( i was in the marine corps ) i will try them both. How are the archers compared to the slingers for putting out damage? i really like the scopios for some hard hitting force to soften up the barbarians before they get to me. Thanks guys for the adivce for the fighting legion of the ninth. My battle plan is similiar to everyones anchor the flanks and put up a small frontage so the barbarians numbers don't count for anything. Hopefully I can roll up a flank and put the sword to the barbarians.

[Jim]

This thread has really got the juices flowing. I have ben doing up lists like a madman.

Do you guys generally make your Auxiliary inf and cav drilled?

What about heavy armour for you legionaries? I think a 3+ save is pretty awesome. 1+ in testudo, but the overall mobility loss is a firly major drawback.

And I normally like to take a few warmachines to take out high toughness badboys like chariots and elephants - plus they are the Tigers of the 1st Century, most people are wary of ballistae. If you place them on a flank, you can get some good enfilade fire and hopefully hit some cavalry in the flank. I have found that people are less aggressive with cavalry if you have some ballistae.

Cheers,

Jim

[romavictor]

i either take one large unit of aux infantry 20-30 and i will make them drilled or two smaller units 15-20 and not drill them, i always pay the points to drill the cav.

i take heavy armour for my veterans, that makes them pretty pricey but well worth it once they get stuck in. the lack of movement is a bummer but romans would hang back and pound the enimy with artilery and archers untill they came with in pilum/charging distance. 6 inch carge vs 8 inch charge is not that big a difference when there are hundreds of frothing barbarians running at you with a 10 inch charge!

to keep my army balanced for gaming purposes and historically accurate i take one scorpio per unit of legionaries. i have a ballista and an onager but thus far i have only used the ballista.

good luck and beware the ides of march

[zedeyejoe]

There is another player at the club who uses the heavy armour option, I always beat him. The extra save is handy but not if your troops only get into combat when the opponent wants it.

Artillery kills heavy armour legionaries just as easily as ones in light armour.

[centurionmarco]

been doing a list for a 2,000 point army and this is what i have come up with. if there are any errors or any suggestions please let me know.

veteran leg. 18 full cmd with pilums 416

regular leg. 18 full cmd with pilums 326

regular leg. 18 full cmd with pilums 326

regular leg. 18 full cmd with pilums 326

auxliary infantry 10 full cmd light armor 95

auxliary infantry 10 full cmd light armor 95

patorian cav 9 full cmd full cmd with kontos 231

scorpio with 3 crew members 44

scorpio with 3 crew members 44

slingers 20 80

total 1983

i figure of putting the slingers up front to screen the leg. advance while the scoprios if i can get to high ground and just drop some pennies from heaven, if not then i will put them in the middle to create some firing lanes and soften up the enemy. aux infantry on the right side and the cav on the left. try to have a small front so i can bunch up the barbarians so there numbers count as nothing. or try to split them in 2 groups and try to roll a flank with the cav.

[Carabus]

A good freind of mine and I played numerous games, my Macedonians against his Romans and he never won, he mostly took Heavy armour upgrades, it didn't really help, more units is better than few high point cost ones…

I did however prove to him twice that is was possible to win with them. After a complete trouncing of his beloved Romans in little less than an hour, I swaped sides. I told him take my Army i'll take his.

You guessed it, I won but not easily

18 is a good size, better to have more units per points though, the Large sheild give a great save as it is with light armour. Some times with my macedonians I don't take any armour, make a unit to sacrifice and strengthen others or add a unit. 2 units with low armour or none, can throw a player and keeps mixing the army up and keep them guessing.