Giving up on Last Argument of Kings - SOLUTION FOUND!

[grant]

I have spent the last few days pricing out regiments and possible collections, and despite the book being top notch, and the figures represented therein very nice indeed, the staggering cost of metals these days just makes me say - no way.

I have come to the conclusion - until there are plastics out, it's just not doable. Warlord, if they were really ahead of the game, should have done one of two things:

1. Released a Pike and Shotte supplement FIRST - after all, they have a MOUNTAIN OF PLASTICS AVAILABLE, and they are THEIR OWN PRODUCT! Sell what you have!

2. If LAOK was the must-publish book, first, then FLOOD THE MARKET with AFFORDABLE PLASTICS!

I think this is a missed, poorly-timed product, that will suffer due to the lack of minis for the period that are affordably readily available.

Back to my Napoleonics for me - and those are almost entirely plastic, by Perry!

I will come back to LAOK when the plastics are out. Until then, it's up on the shelf. I almost regret buying it, as the book is so nice, and the passion of the author makes me want 1745, 1759 - FIW/Quebec , or SYW minis so badly. I have even been listening to Telemann on my iPhone, and the mood is there. I could scream in frustration! YEAAAAARGH!

[mikeland]

I have to say I was very surprised myself that LAOK was first out of the stable, and hasn't as yet been accompanied by a Warlord range. I was expecting a Napolionic or Colonial era supplement first.
Perhaps they are just releasing them as and when they are finished and this one happened to be done first. I can see it will probably sell as there are quite a lot of people who game this period, possibly many in other sizes like 15mm. But you are right, at the moment it doesn't do very much to aid the sales of Warlords Ranges. I think down the line when several BP supplements are out it will seem less strange.

[Mike Target]

Well, its not like its unusual for Warlord to work this way: One of the local GW staffers used to joke how (until recently) there were no models for the rules they'd sold, and no rules for the models they sold! And not counting other companies stuff available through them it was true...

We can probably expect some 18thC plastics to be released around the same time as they release the Colonial supplement....and then they'll release the ECW supplement at the same time as the Naps models...and then Naps supplement at the same time as the colonial models.

Eventually...it'll all make sense!

[mikeland]

Well, its not like its unusual for Warlord to work this way: One of the local GW staffers used to joke how (until recently) there were no models for the rules they'd sold, and no rules for the models they sold! And not counting other companies stuff available through them it was true...

I think the 2 key things to remember about Warlord Games is that:

1. Unlike GW they are not trying to create a self dependent monoploistic bubble with their products. They work with other manufacturers in the market instead of against them. Hence their ranges complement rather than cut the throat of other companies.

The forth coming Zulus are a great example of this. Instead of just creating a competing line Warlord have teamed up with Empress to expand the Zulu range.

BP was released knowing that the Perry's were producing ACW and Napolionic plastics. The plastic romans and celts were released knowing that loads of people already play WAB. Sure they want to make money but they are not obsessively trying to force the market so that you only buy warlord rules, and then warlord army lists and then Warlord plastic troops, and then paint them with Warlord brushes and Warlord paints and use Warlord basing materials and Warlord movement trays and Warlord finecast command figures etc.

The see themselves as one company, among many as part of a wider market. It the produce figures and books for Wargamers and Collectors, not fans of the "Warlord Hobby"

2. Warlord Games are not a massive company and therefore have to bring things out as and when they can.

I for one find it refreshing that they, and the Perrys, Victrix et al are not following Games Workshops Model. I think that whilst very slick the GW is ultimately cynical and stifling.

Rant over...

...I think I better go have a cup of tea...

[NTM]

Makes me laugh we spend an inordinate amount of time bemoaning how GW and BF sell rules which just make you buy their figures and now Warlord are getting it for not producing figures to go with their rules. You just can't win with us lot can you!

[Big Al]

While I agree that this book was not the first one I expected to be released (Napoleonics was the one I expected) I wasn't surprised by it. On both this forum and the Yahoo Group, there has been a lot of requests for lists and information about SYW, AWI and TYW so, to be fair to Warlord, they answered their customers' requests. I suspect that this book was already being put together by the author, where the Naps one will probably need more fine tuning. Going by the various discussions, Naps players are very critical (probably as bad as Ancients players), and so this will likely mean that the team are working hard to make sure they have no loopholes. If Hail, Caesar is anything to go by, then the supplements will be spot on. HC is far tighter than BP was.

[Rod MacArthur]

the passion of the author makes me want 1745, 1759 - FIW/Quebec , or SYW minis so badly.

Hi Grant,

I agree that LAOK is really inspiring for 1745 Jacobite Rebellion and 7 Years War in North America. Since I never grew out of 1;72 plastics I have been looking at what is available there, rembering that most recent 1:72 plastic figures are at least 23mm if not 25 mm, so not so different to the ranges liked by those who prefer to collect 25mm or 28mm in metal or plastic.

The Zvezda Great Northern War Russian and Swedish figures, infantry, dragoons and artillery all look excellent, as is normal for that outstanding Russian manufacturer. I think the Russians could pass as 1742-1759 French and the Swedish as British of the same period. An alternative is the Revell Austrian 7 Years War infantry (but their Prussian Grenadiers are very large and their cavalry are thin and not very good). Strelets do two sets of Jacobite highlanders, and are much better proportioned figures than their normal output. Barcelona Universal Models (B.U.M.) has recently released several sets of excellent Rogers Rangers, including one set with a whaleboat and one with a pair of canoes. With minimal conversion these Rogers Rangers could also pass for Jacobite lowlanders. There are Six Nations Warriors in the B.U.M sets but I think the best of these are the Italaleri Indian Warriors (which are in fact 25mm).

These 1:72 sets are of course very cheap, so I will be getting one of each to have a good look at before buying more. They can all be viewed on Plastic Soldier Review (PSR).

Rod

[Mike Target]

Well, its not like its unusual for Warlord to work this way: One of the local GW staffers used to joke how (until recently) there were no models for the rules they'd sold, and no rules for the models they sold! And not counting other companies stuff available through them it was true...

I think the 2 key things to remember about Warlord Games is that:

1. Unlike GW they are not trying to create a self dependent monoploistic bubble with their products. They work with other manufacturers in the market instead of against them. Hence their ranges complement rather than cut the throat of other companies.

The forth coming Zulus are a great example of this. Instead of just creating a competing line Warlord have teamed up with Empress to expand the Zulu range.

BP was released knowing that the Perry's were producing ACW and Napolionic plastics. The plastic romans and celts were released knowing that loads of people already play WAB. Sure they want to make money but they are not obsessively trying to force the market so that you only buy warlord rules, and then warlord army lists and then Warlord plastic troops, and then paint them with Warlord brushes and Warlord paints and use Warlord basing materials and Warlord movement trays and Warlord finecast command figures etc.

The see themselves as one company, among many as part of a wider market. It the produce figures and books for Wargamers and Collectors, not fans of the "Warlord Hobby"

2. Warlord Games are not a massive company and therefore have to bring things out as and when they can.

I for one find it refreshing that they, and the Perrys, Victrix et al are not following Games Workshops Model. I think that whilst very slick the GW is ultimately cynical and stifling.

Rant over...

...I think I better go have a cup of tea...

Oh I know all this, I wasn't criticising or complaining, just observing the phenomenon and using those observations to formulate a prediction regarding future releases.

[grant]

At least I'm not the only one who's waiting on other stuff, and please don't get me wrong -LAOK is a beautiful book and is crazy inspiring!

I think I might even pick up Baccus 6mm to get by. They have a huge (pun...) range of SYW minis. Their shopping cart doesn't seem to work right, though.

[mikeland]

@Mike Target
Many apologies, rant not directed at you. Recently experienced a member of GW staff being a bit sniffy about WG which annoyed me seeing as I was only in there to buy some paint, so my rant was probably on the back of that. Sorry if I caused offense ...Now where is that tea.