Questions from a novice...

[jhock]

Hi,

I have some very basic questions to ask so I hope no minds if some of them seem a bit daft, I have been a war gamer for nearly 20 years but it has always been either Games Workshop or skirmish games like Malifaux or Warmachine.

Recently I bought some Warlord miniatures English Civil War plastics, they are great models and as a result I would really like to give Historical war gaming a try, but I have very little idea where to begin so would be grateful for any help:

1 Pike and Shotte seems to be the rules system for English Civil War?
2 Is it or can it be a points based system along lines Warhammer?
3 If not how do you work out to equal opposing armies?
4 Is there a good web site with a list of clubs?
5 I live in North Hertfordshire, any one know any clubs round these parts?

Any help is welcome and I hope you can excuse my ignorance!

James

[Chilledenuff]

If it is any help than I can divulge the following:

P&S isn't released until Saturday, but the Blackpowder rules it is based on are very good. They aren't like warhammer with points values really. They can be, but you may be better off with Warhammer: English Civil War (which is 4th ed. Fantasy with tweaks, and army lists).

[Deadmanwade]

As a similar newcomer to the field of Historicals, I cant be sure about the answers to all your questions, but here is what I have found.

1. Yes
2. Not really sure as I haven't read the book yet, but if it is like Black Powder/Hail Caesar, it can be, but you're missing the point a little.
3. Generally (again for the other Warlord systems) its more scenario driven. The games seem to work well with 3 players, 1 on each side and a GM who helps smooth things over and develops the scenario. Rotating this role is important though. Of course, 2 players is fine. Both players should discuss what they are going to bring to the game and try to have an equal amount of units.
These games are a far cry from Warhammer and are probably better with like-minded players. (ie those who like the narrative style games rather than copy-pasted tournament armies in 40k are going to enjoy the game more). The impression I get from BP and HC is that winning and losing isn't quite so important as having a fun time with your friends.
4. Sorry, no idea.
5. Again, hopefully someone else can help.

[Undave]

Welcome to the muddy waters of historical wargaming

Pike and Shotte is certainly one of the rules sets available which covers English Civil War although there are others. The Warhammer Historical version probably contains rules you'll be more familiar with as well as a clear cut points system, However, at least from my point of view, it seems to be a little ambiguous on certain important game mechanics and most games I've played have devolved into arguments over different interpretations of the rules.

I've not had chance to get a copy of Warlord's rules as yet (Salute beckons though) but I gather it's similar to Black Powder and Hail Caesar. Not being restricted by points does lend itself to some interesting and entertaining games but it does rather assume some prior knowledge of what troops were available in what numbers and how effective they were. This can be extremely daunting to a novice but my advice is to get a bit of stuff together and throw it on a gaming table. You'll soon see what's good against what and hopefully have some fun doing it. Don't be afraid of losing, like most historical generals just do your best with what you have and remember it when you plan your next game.

Rather than plonking two identically sized armies on the table and have-atting it, the Warlord rules encourage you to think about playing scenarios like last stands, march ambushes etc. as well as pitched battles. Even with a pitched battle though you can still add a bit of narrative. One side has the high ground but is outnumbered. An inferior force has to do as much damage as it can to an overwhelming enemy in order to lessen its effectiveness later in the war. Games like that don't rely on points so much as tactics and a sense of fun. Warlord rules don't tend to be competitive, they're more about re-fighting it like it was.

If you have the time and patience history books, novels and documentaries are a good source of inspiration, also there are numerous websites which can give you a rundown of the main battles. With a bit of research you'll quickly get an idea of the kind of force that was generally available and go from there. If you're planning a force from scratch I'd recommend at least a couple of units of pike and shotte as these are the backbone of your army (hence the name of the book) Back that up with a unit of cavalry and possibly a canon and see where that takes you. The P&S starter set is always a good guide for a basic force.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[Eumerin]

1.) Yup. Just came out, too. Perfect timing for you!
2.) It's not currently, and to the best of my knowledge no plans have been announced to make it a full-on points based system. But that might change in the future. Books full of lists are being released for Hail Caesar, and it's possible that might happen for Pike and Shotte. On the other hand, Black Powder has been out for even longer than Hail Caesar, and hasn't had any list books released for it. So don't assume that it's going to happen.
3.) Scenarios are the primary option. Figure out what forces fought at a particular battle, and then put together two armies that roughly correspond to the forces that were present. Then put together victory conditions that focus on each side attempting to do better than the historical result. Alternately, if you play with the same small group of individuals, then you should be able to get an idea of what forces make for a balanced battle, and can tweak things accordingly.

Finally, the back of the Hail Caesar army list book contains simple guidelines for figuring out the points costs of units. The guidelines are designed for Hail Caesar, but should be adaptable to Pike and Shotte (as well as Black Powder) with just a little bit of effort.

[Big Al]

To add to what Eumerin has said, there is most likely a points system in the back. However, any questions and I am sure that Steve Morgan, the author will answer them for you until the rest of us gets to grips with it.
For scenarios, I would search for things like Tabletop Teasers. These are normally adaptable to just about any period and give excellent games. Other than that, you can use the army lists from any ruleset, like the Warhammer: English Civil War or other such system. Just make sure that both sides use the same lists and then you know it is balanced.

[Augustus_Gaius]

1.) Books full of lists are being released for Hail Caesar, and it's possible that might happen for Pike and Shotte. On the other hand, Black Powder has been out for even longer than Hail Caesar, and hasn't had any list books released for it. So don't assume that it's going to happen.

If i remember rightly theirs a supplement coming out for the Anglo-Zulu war which may have lists etc. i read that on a thread in the Anglo-Zulu war section a while back, so I've been assuming somethings coming (I hope)

[Eumerin]

1.) Books full of lists are being released for Hail Caesar, and it's possible that might happen for Pike and Shotte. On the other hand, Black Powder has been out for even longer than Hail Caesar, and hasn't had any list books released for it. So don't assume that it's going to happen.

If i remember rightly theirs a supplement coming out for the Anglo-Zulu war which may have lists etc. i read that on a thread in the Anglo-Zulu war section a while back, so I've been assuming somethings coming (I hope)

There's a supplement coming out, but I wouldn't count on lists unless a WG person specifically states otherwise.

Had someone posting on the forum for my local store the other day insisting that "Last Argument of Kings" was a list book for Black Powder. Unfortunately, I had to bring up the fact that I'd skimmed through that book myself, and so far as I could note there wasn't a single points value provided anywhere in 'Argument.

[Augustus_Gaius]

1.) Books full of lists are being released for Hail Caesar, and it's possible that might happen for Pike and Shotte. On the other hand, Black Powder has been out for even longer than Hail Caesar, and hasn't had any list books released for it. So don't assume that it's going to happen.

If i remember rightly theirs a supplement coming out for the Anglo-Zulu war which may have lists etc. i read that on a thread in the Anglo-Zulu war section a while back, so I've been assuming somethings coming (I hope)

There's a supplement coming out, but I wouldn't count on lists unless a WG person specifically states otherwise.

Had someone posting on the forum for my local store the other day insisting that "Last Argument of Kings" was a list book for Black Powder. Unfortunately, I had to bring up the fact that I'd skimmed through that book myself, and so far as I could note there wasn't a single points value provided anywhere in 'Argument.

good point :p although it is quite fun making your own ones as it makes you engage with the period

[canadasteve]

Not sure if these clubs still operate but:

Hertfordshire. North Herts Lancers 01462 676470
Herts. Black wolf wargames club 01462 62504?? http://blackwolfwargames.blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.hertsvolunteers.co.uk/